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Subject: Grown man + teen stepchild = ??? rss

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Lawson
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I was chatting recently with a female friend, who as part of a discussion of my dating life was waxing red-alert about my having any grown man around my children to any substantial degree, especially my daughter, and especially as the years go by.

I see the issue, for sure. I was fully-developed by age 14 and was a reasonably fine specimen of young womanhood during my teen years. I have every reason to think that my daughter will be, too.

And, absolutely, there are creepy guys out there who will not only be attracted to teenaged girls (and/or boys) but prone to acting on it. I encountered my fair share of them.

I know that men and women differ categorically in some ways, and I know that there are variations among men and among women, but I suppose I've always assumed that guys are more or less like I am in this regard:

First, I am fully capable of finding people attractive (abstractly or viscerally) without acting on it. Friends of a partner of mine, for instance, would be safe from me, no matter how hot.

Second, there are people who fall completely outside of my recognized sexual universe because of the category they inhabit. There's no doubt in my mind that any stepchildren I might ever have would emphatically fall into this category.

I've been assuming that most (though certainly not all) guys see things similarly, but I'm curious.

Of course, RSP is hardly a representative cross-section of, well, anything, but there are a lot of guys here, and I'm curious. What do you think the real deal is when it comes to grown men (in general) and attractive teen step-type-children in their lives?
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CHAPEL
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corross wrote:

Of course, RSP is hardly a representative cross-section of, well, anything, but there are a lot of guys here, and I'm curious. What do you think the real deal is when it comes to grown men (in general) and attractive teen step-type-children in their lives?


Well, and area I am somewhat an expert in, being I have 3 sisters that were all teens during 3 of my mothers *grumble grumble*...marriages.

And even though I disliked most of them for one reason or another, they never seemed creepily interested in groping my sisters. And I consider myself a good reader of people.

I think first of all, people need to stop thinking that all men are perverted scumbags. I've dated a few women in the past that had children at various pre-adult ages, and that never even crossed my mind. And I always had a healthy libido.

A lot of us men find it just as creepy thinking of children in a sexual way as any women, and anyone for that matter.

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Boaty McBoatface
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At the end of the day mern are not sex fiends. Yes there are creeps that will shag teen girls, and there are women that shag teen boys. Mo9st men wioll nit go after the daughter, unless the daughter presents it to them on a plate, and even then I suspect they will balk at the offer, not out of some snece of decency but fear of being branded a pervert. I would actualy say that stop sons ae more in danger from step mums.
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Scott Russell
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I would worry a lot more about a teenage step-son being around my daughter (or vice versa) than about someone my age being around my children.

If someone were interested in me, I can't see my son being a target. Similarly if someone were interested in my wife, I can't see them being attracted to my daughters.

And, even that isn't to say that it's something to be avoided, but I think I would want to monitor the situation.
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Eugene
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Dave G
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I'm with Chapel here. The mental categorization of a person as "child" eliminates any possible sexual interest for me. This effect actually seemed to last long past the point it was necessary--my friends' younger sisters were always still mentally out-of-bounds for me, even when they were adults in college and probably quite attractive otherwise.
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garygarison wrote:


This meme/image does make a good point, because there is no way that girl is 13. I'd guess closer to 20 years old. With that in mind there are two separate things here - one being that youth is sexier than wrinkles and saggy boobs and the other being most teenage girls, especially step-child teenagers are repellent creatures.

Assume the girl in the image is actually 19 years old. Why is it creepy for a guy 30 or 40 or 50 years old to be attracted? She's attractive. But assume that she's only 16 years old, now suddenly the same men that were a-ok ogling her become pervs and need to be locked up?

My ex from 6 years ago - Ah, never has "ex" sounded better - had three daughters who all became teens during the course of our co-habitation. They were repellent. Despite each of them being attractive in their own special ways (they really were attractive) I discovered that my disgust with teenage girls dating back to when I was a teenager hadn't faded. During my daughter's teen years I endured the sheer awfulness that is a teenage girl and because my daughter wasn't into anything faddish or anything pop music or all the normal BS, I was lured into thinking new generations of teen had evolved human-like traits. I was wrong. If anything, they're even more repellent than when I was a teen.

I don't actually think there's a clear answer to any of this stuff because each family dynamic is different and I have witnessed 12 and 13 year old girls doing everything they could to entice "men" (in most cases 18, 19 or early 20's "men") in overtly sexual ways and with overtly sexual attire. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of factors in each and every case where a male step-parent diddles his step-daughter and the only easy answer is what we have - it's a crime because of an arbitrary age limit.

The other side of this is that there have been several cases here in Boise in recent years where men went to jail, or at the very least to trial solely on the verbal accusation of their step-daughter and it later came out the step-daughter lied because she didn't like the guy. Given the easy sexuality of so many 13 year olds and the peevish refusal of their parents to create and enforce standards of dress and conduct I'm pretty sure we will continue to see the nation's jails fill up to bursting with men convicted of sex crimes, and among them there will be plenty who are innocent. If I was a 30-something man dating a woman with teen daughters it would 99% be a deal-breaker for me given the freedom and recklessness of today's teen girls and their ability to damage, forever, the lives of any man they don't like or want to punish.

It was a lot easier in the past, believe me. Almost all sexual exploitation of minors occurred in your local high school and it was usually the one math teacher guy with the Corvette who was banging the cheerleaders.
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Eugene
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DWTripp wrote:
This meme/image does make a good point, because there is no way that girl is 13. I'd guess closer to 20 years old.

Chloe Moretz one day after her 14th birthday.

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garygarison wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
This meme/image does make a good point, because there is no way that girl is 13. I'd guess closer to 20 years old.

Chloe Moretz one day after her 14th birthday.


Gary, we already know you're a creep. I'm not sure why you want to draw further attention to it.

This one looks too young.
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Boaty McBoatface
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garygarison wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
This meme/image does make a good point, because there is no way that girl is 13. I'd guess closer to 20 years old.

Chloe Moretz one day after her 14th birthday.



NOt really trying to not be eye catching (and to be honest I don't think she is that nice, certainly not sexy). I would almost say the saem about the other picture, except I don't think she was trying as hard.

Who is Chloe Moretz anyway?
 
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Eugene
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jarredscott78 wrote:
Gary, we already know you're a creep. I'm not sure why you want to draw further attention to it.

In fact, I am so much not a creep, I feel perfectly at ease offering these images for everyone's edification.
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garygarison wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
Gary, we already know you're a creep. I'm not sure why you want to draw further attention to it.

In fact, I am so much not a creep, I feel perfectly at ease offering these images for everyone's edification.

That's creepy.
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slatersteven wrote:
Who is Chloe Moretz anyway?

An actress of some sort, I imagine. I stumbled across her image doing a search for "hot 13-year-old". Mind you, this was solely to provide a counterexample to DW's implication that girls that young don't look like that.
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Dave G
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jarredscott78 wrote:

Gary, we already know you're a creep. I'm not sure why you want to draw further attention to it.

This one looks too young.


Way too young. Definitely creepy.
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Too young to possess sexually? Definitely. But not too young to contemplate her just-budding beauty. She's a lovely girl.

 
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garygarison wrote:
Too young to possess sexually? Definitely. But not too young to contemplate her just-budding beauty. She's a lovely girl.


Maybe it's just me, but the perversity here is more that her parents allow this blatant sexual posturing and dress. The high heels? At 13? I entered her name into Google images and easily 90% of the images were sexual in nature, intended to entice and promote how sexual she is. If this girl is only 14 (and apparently she is but I still say the one in the bathing suit is 20) then it is more an indictment of her parents than it is any man finding her attractive.

Anyone who still believes we aren't in the midst of a culture war and our children are the cannon fodder is truly a fucking moron. I am not some sort of staid old fogey or bible-thumping preacher cursing dancing as the devil's waltz... but the super-sexualization of teens and preteens is not going to end well. In this regard I like the old days a whole lot more.
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William Boykin
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Why would anyone want to dress up their daughter as a Bratz doll?

*shudder*

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corross wrote:
I've been assuming that most (though certainly not all) guys see things similarly, but I'm curious.

This was the punchline of a thread a while ago; opinions seemed to vary.

DWTripp wrote:
But assume that she's only 16 years old, now suddenly the same men that were a-ok ogling her become pervs and need to be locked up?

Yes, and I have no problem with the concept of criminal behavior being determined by an arbitrary age limit.

Kids are idiots; they don't know who they are yet, and they can't be trusted to make the right choices in some situations where there's a risk of permanent damage (emotional or otherwise). Of course everyone develops from a child idiot to an adult idiot at their own rate, so really the determining factor should be "is this person emotionally/intellectually/whatever mature enough to be considered an adult," but that's hard to measure. In comparison, "is this person 18" is easy to measure, and the consequence of placing the bar too high (denying some hypothetically mature 17-year-old the opportunity to have sex with an old person, or be elected President, etc.) just isn't worth worrying about. It's practically the definition of a self-correcting problem.

As far as garygarrison's pedophile picture [EDIT: I mean his first pedophile picture... in this thread], that's bullshit. Your "no way she's 13" response seems reasonable. Anyone else's "13, oh gross" response also seems reasonable. His implied "oh, I guess I would commit statutory rape" response is not reasonable.

(For a less contrived example--I remember seeing a picture of a fellow BGGer, and thinking, "so-and-so, lookin' goooood," and then scrolling down and realizing with horror that I was ogling a picture of her teenage daughter, a child, and then feeling gross. No way "oh, I guess I would commit statutory rape" would be OK.)
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Blue Mountain
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garygarison wrote:
this is plain weird.
 
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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DWTripp wrote:
I am not some sort of staid old fogey or bible-thumping preacher cursing dancing as the devil's waltz... but the super-sexualization of teens and preteens is not going to end well. In this regard I like the old days a whole lot more.

I am dubious about your nostalgia for the good ol' days--I know one staid old fogey who said that when he was growing up, "virgin" meant "a faster runner than her brothers & uncles"--but I agree with your point.
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Jeff Jones
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garygarison wrote:


Pedophiles are not attracted to 13 year old girls who look 20. They are attracted to pre-pubescent children.

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kuhrusty wrote:
the consequence of placing the bar too high (denying some hypothetically mature 17-year-old the opportunity to have sex with an old person, or be elected President, etc.) just isn't worth worrying about. It's practically the definition of a self-correcting problem.


Yeah, I think we both said the same thing. In this sort of situation we pretty much have to make it arbitrary or else there is no way to control things.

But the point I was making wasn't that, because I accept arbitrariness all the time as a needed and useful tool. The point was the perception of the guy looking at the image. If she is 16, he's a creep. If she is 18, he's a normal guy. That's what drives this whole social malady. We have an arbitrary age limit for sex, good. Then why shouldn't we have an arbitrary age limit for dressing like a slut? Further, why shouldn't the parents of the girls also be branded sex offenders? I'm all for excusing bad behavior from teens unless it's murder, robbery or assault, but why shouldn't the parents who are, in essence, abusing their own children by allowing this sort of shit, why should they get off Scot-free? I think we need another arbitrary to fix this shit. Brand the parents with the same sexual predator brand and see if maybe things get better. They sure won't get worse.
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Kafka wrote:
garygarison wrote:
We don't need yet another copy of this image in the thread, do we?


Pedophiles are not attracted to 13 year old girls who look 20. They are attracted to pre-pubescent children.



This is true in a psychological definition sense - pedophiles are attracted to prepubescent children, hebephiles are attracted to pubescent children through young adolescence, and ephebephiles are attracted to 9older adolescents - but not in a common-parlance or a legal sense.
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DWTripp wrote:
kuhrusty wrote:
the consequence of placing the bar too high (denying some hypothetically mature 17-year-old the opportunity to have sex with an old person, or be elected President, etc.) just isn't worth worrying about. It's practically the definition of a self-correcting problem.


Yeah, I think we both said the same thing. In this sort of situation we pretty much have to make it arbitrary or else there is no way to control things.

But the point I was making wasn't that, because I accept arbitrariness all the time as a needed and useful tool. The point was the perception of the guy looking at the image. If she is 16, he's a creep. If she is 18, he's a normal guy. That's what drives this whole social malady. We have an arbitrary age limit for sex, good. Then why shouldn't we have an arbitrary age limit for dressing like a slut? Further, why shouldn't the parents of the girls also be branded sex offenders? I'm all for excusing bad behavior from teens unless it's murder, robbery or assault, but why shouldn't the parents who are, in essence, abusing their own children by allowing this sort of shit, why should they get off Scot-free? I think we need another arbitrary to fix this shit. Brand the parents with the same sexual predator brand and see if maybe things get better. They sure won't get worse.


I think I'm comfortable with continuing to brand them as terrible parents. We probably should restrict the sexual predator brand to those who actually express their deviant sexual desires.

I do think that we send our young girls pretty serious mixed messages about their pre-18 sexuality and I certainly don't envy the parents of kids of that age.
 
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