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Subject: Finalized Card Backs rss

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Erik Racer
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Geez. I really hate to be "that guy", but I really don't like these card backs previewed in the latest KS update very much.

KS Update #13

The morgue back is OK, but I'd rather just be a picture of the door leading into the morgue, with the word "morgue" on the door. Also, shouldn't it say "Morgue" instead of "Examine Body"?

The crime scene back is serviceable, but I think I just prefer some yellow & black police tape that reads "crime scene".

The gang back really just needs to go. Too busy and while probably a statistically accurate portrayal of street gangs, it raises my politically correct hackles like nobody's business. Also, their bandannas look like they are floating there. I'd much prefer graffiti on a wall.

Borders. They all need borders.

So, I apologize if I'm coming off as harsh. I realize this is a lot of work for you and its no fun to receive criticism. If I hadn't ponied up my cash to support it, I wouldn't have said anything. But since I'm "invested", thought I'd offer my 2 cents.

Here's some quick examples I drafted up. In my book, if your going to offer criticism, you darn well better offer a solution as well. Y'know, put up or shut up.



Thanks for listening and keep the updates coming.
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Loose Cannon
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all right, i signed in with facebook, and it doesnt show i backed this?
but I did. I would like to see the card backs if possible?
thanks
 
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Michael D. Kelley
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Love the idea of the game, really looking forward to it, but I totally agree with what Erik said. Not trying to be a jerk, but when I saw that gang member art, with the "floating bandanas", I actually felt a little bad about my kickstarting of the project. It was just for a second, but game art shouldn't make me regret buying a game.

I was happy to see, however, that the gang members aren't all black! That one dude in the back left could be white or latino. So hooray for that. But yeah, graffiti or something similar as suggested would be a lot better, and a lot classier.
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Joe F.
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First it is just a game, 2nd, why shouldn't a game mirror society?!? Whatever that may happen to be. A discussion happened a few months ago that the police in this game weren't racially diverse enough... here we go again...
 
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The Great Dalmuti
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i think the main point is that george is an illustrator an not a graphic designer. great difference!
i love his art, but i think you are right with your critics.
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Chris
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Yeah the street gang is just bad. The "Do Rag" on the one in the front isn't even on his head. And the "Floating" Bandannas look ridiculous. George may be getting overwhelmed. With Agents of whatever and the new resistance and this and who knows how many other games he seems to be getting sloppy.

No don't get me wrong I can't paint like that at all. I am a Miniature painter but I do know when something looks "Off" and I am displeased.

I can deal with the examine body cards and the crime scene is a bit odd (as a CSI those suits are not always used and are actually very rarely used). If your going for Realism I suggest putting a numbered placard near the item the investigator is picking up.

But the Street Gang cards need to be changed. I like the idea of Graffiti
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Anders Pedersen
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I agree, the Street Gang card should be redone.
It is too busy and doesn't even look realistic.
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Erik Racer
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Nordiska wrote:
First it is just a game, 2nd, why shouldn't a game mirror society?!? Whatever that may happen to be. A discussion happened a few months ago that the police in this game weren't racially diverse enough... here we go again...

I'd prefer not to drag this down that route again and my following post is not intended to dissuade you from your opinion. I'm just hoping by relating it you may be able to look at it via a different angle.

I took a women's studies course in college. The professor was wonderful; however, despite her best intent I left the class feeling like a horrible person, just because I was a man. Why? Because the curricula "showed" me this everyday.

Now, if I were a person of color, and all of the imagery I saw of people who looked like me were criminals, gang-bangers, etc, I think it would have a very demoralizing effect on me over time based on my prior experience.

Which makes me wonder, is it possible the imagery is perpetuating the notion and life is imitating art? I honestly don't know, but wouldn't be surprised if it weren't a little of both.

Regardless, we will obviously disagree, so attempting to debate it in this forum will serve no purpose other than to probably get the thread locked. I and the other gentleman were just offering our opinions and you have offered yours. Its up to the designers as to how they want to implement their vision.
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Erik Racer
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SlimJim wrote:
all right, i signed in with facebook, and it doesnt show i backed this?
but I did. I would like to see the card backs if possible?
thanks

If they haven't shown up by the time I'm off work tonight, I'll upload a copy either in my gallery or this one. I'm assuming the designers have and they just haven't made it through the geek mod yet.
 
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Common Man Games
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Hello All,

I noticed this thread a short while after it got started the other day. I wanted to weigh-in with some thoughts and ideas at the time, but we use CPM scheduling, and I was dealing with a task that was right on the the critical path of our timeline, which meant that any delays would cause a delay in the game's progress. Nobody wants that, so I stayed focused.

Let me make a brief announcement or two (KS + BGG) about it.

Then I will come back soon to this thread and post a couple of things.

In this case, "soon" is defined as; in the next couple hours or worst case next few days.

Thanks!

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Common Man Games
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Hello All,

I'm back to talk about a few things.

I'm not sure I will be able to address everything in this thread right now, partly because there is a lot going on (within the thread), and partly because I am very short of time to meet some deadlines with the game.

1. PRE-ORDER:
I believe it was mentioned in this thread that someone thought they had ordered the game (and / or backed it on Kickstarter), but now they are not sure. To this I say, please feel free to send an email addressed to Common Man Games mentioning that you want to pre-order the game. It is not too late to do this, and we have been getting a lot of people doing this all throughout this process (especially lately).

2. GEORGE:
I have some very sad news about George (The artist for Police Precinct). He is in the hospital and will likely remain there for several more months. Our thoughts and prayers go out to him. I mention this primarily because I want everyone to think positive thoughts for his recovery. We have been able to get to know him well during this project and we feel like he is not only a great artist, but also a really good guy. The work he did for games like Flash Point, and Agents of SMERSH, are sure signs of how important his work is to the gaming industry. I can honestly say that without his work, Police Precinct would never have funded on Kickstarter. We were FAR from our minimum goal, and there was only a handful of days left, when he started finishing up his first images. It was only after we posted those images that things really took off. We owe him a great debt of gratitude. It was also his art that propelled Police Precinct up to #1 in hottness on BGG. Thanks George, and we are thinking of you now, and wish you a speedy recovery.

3. GANG DECK BACK:
Due to George's condition, we are unable to request any more art from him for the game. Since we want the art to all come from the same source so that it all has the same look and feel, this means that we must work with the art we have now. We do happen to have an extra piece that we commissioned from him but never used in the game. Since we have this piece of art, and since it has been suggested here that an ally with graffiti might be a better pick than the three gang members, I will suggest this course of action...
I will place the image here in this post, and if we hear all / significant positive feedback, and there is time (and consensus within CMG is to make the change), then we might be able to do it. So here it is, please feel free to weigh in with your thoughts as to Whether or not you like this image for the back of the Gang Deck.


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Common Man Games
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Poll
So far as using this image posted above (Graffiti Alley) for the back of the gang deck, I am...
  Your Answer   Vote Percent Vote Count
Very Keen on it!
0.0% 0
thinking that it's not over the top great, but it will do the job just fine.
50.0% 4
feeling a slight negative bias, but I'm OK with it.
50.0% 4
not really liking it at all.
0.0% 0
Voters 8
This poll is now closed.   8 answers
Poll created by Common Man Games
Closes: Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:00 am
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Erik Racer
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Very sorry to hear about George. I wish him a speedy recovery.

In regards to this image, I like it better than the image of the gang members, but it doesn't wow me.

Another option you could consider would be to just go with a solid color back on each of the decks with the appropriate text on it. Each deck could have its own color. Nothing fancy, but it would get the job done.

If the card fronts don't have images, then you could use the images you commissioned as the fronts. You would just need to put a transparency over the top of the images so that the card text could be read.

Anyway, there only appears to be a handful of us who seem to have an issue with it, so, either the other backers don't have an opinion ... or they aren't subscribed to the game like I am.

Thanks for taking the time to consider our feedback.
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Holger Doessing
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At this point I have to say that Erik Racer's mockups are much closer to what I would expect. The current card backs all look cluttered and rather unprofessional, especially the typeface. The alternate (graffiti) art for the gang cards doesn't seem like it would be substantially better. I find it hard to believe that CMG cannot come up with something better for all 3 card backs. Why can't another artist be commissioned to do something that will fit in with the existing art? The graphics in e.g. Santiago de Cuba were heavily borrowed (and modified) from Cuba, suggesting that something similar could be done with the current art for PP.
 
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