Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
28 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Panzer (second edition)» Forums » News

Subject: Delay in Shipping Until Week of 8/27 rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
. .

Apex
North Carolina
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
https://www.gmtgames.com/news.aspx?showarticle=246

Noooo!!!

Apparently the data cards came packaged in 2 sets which are too thick for the boxes and they have to repackage them in 3 sets as the proofs and order from GMT Games specified.

I'm glad nothing is wrong and that everything is ready to go, but I was so stoked to see that shipping update today and then to get my hopes dashed for another week!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nevin Ball
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
badge
That tickles!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bummer. I assume then that Panzer comes in the smaller (standard) box instead of the larger ones like Combat Commander. I'd prefer a large box so I can add an expansion to save on shelf space.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Di Ponio
United States
Lake Orion
MI
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Oh well, one more week is not a big deal! I would rather have GMT get it right (they usually do). I agree Nevin, I wish the box was like CC but, all three boxes for Panzer should look nice on a shelf!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eddie Carlson
United States
Clarksville
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I admit, I'm new to war gaming and this is my first major purchase from a company. I ordered all three products and two sets of counter trays and have been charged for all of it like everyone else, but I never expected such delays. First they said it took longer to dry than other games, now the cards are packed thicker than the box can handle. I'm just wondering how they got packed in the box that was sent to them to notice that. You would think the people that printed the stuff and put in the boxes would have noticed a problem.

But, I can only assume it is normal in this industry for companies to charge your card and not deliver the product until they feel like it. I'm sure there is a much better reason for the delay they dont want to share rather than the ones they give really as they don't make sense to me. Not that they owe me an explanation or anything about the real delay problems as I'm sure it is more than just incompetent packing processes. I admit, my experience is in the computer industry and customer service fields, but wow, there would a very big problem if we shipped to our client something that didn't "fit in the box." That would have been a huge oversight of Quality Control that would have someone in trouble.

Here is hoping for the best. I can only imagine what the next excuse will be. On the bright side, my wife got me CC for my birthday and I can play that for awhile.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Tamburo
United States
Justice
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
First, all three games in that print run were affected by the drying delay - which was the result of local flooding boosting humidity. Believe it or not it happens. Them shipping the data cards in incorrect bundles is a silly goofup but GMT correcting it on premises results in a shorter delay than the alternative - having the printer redo them.

Second, GMT deserves kudos for timely and forthright communications with their customers. Many publishers would have not even told their customers what was going on.

Ultimately your false charge of "charge your card and deliver when they feel like it" is nonsensical. Take a look at GMTs charge to ship window - even with the short delays they are still well within the window. Panzer started charging in July and will be shipping the last week of August. That is well short of a typical 12 week window.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eddie Carlson
United States
Clarksville
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Joelist wrote:
First, all three games in that print run were affected by the drying delay - which was the result of local flooding boosting humidity. Believe it or not it happens. Them shipping the data cards in incorrect bundles is a silly goofup but GMT correcting it on premises results in a shorter delay than the alternative - having the printer redo them.

Second, GMT deserves kudos for timely and forthright communications with their customers. Many publishers would have not even told their customers what was going on.

Ultimately your false charge of "charge your card and deliver when they feel like it" is nonsensical. Take a look at GMTs charge to ship window - even with the short delays they are still well within the window. Panzer started charging in July and will be shipping the last week of August. That is well short of a typical 12 week window.


Like I said, I've never ordered P500 before, so this is new to me. I've just never encountered such terrible service before. I'm not sure who said there was flooding, just a mention of extra humidity. So I'm sure they must be a good company as people continue to buy from them. I've already paid for all three boxes and extra accessories and thought that they gave me some right as a paying consumer to be disappointed in a shoddy job of quality control and missed delivery windows. So I am disappointed and wanted to vent. But yes, they did charge me and they are sending me the product when they want. You can give them kudos for communication and I can criticize their inability to deliver on schedule.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jacovis
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I happened to stop by and visit the warehouse yesterday on my way through Central Valley, and I can say that the delay is going to be worth it. The office staff have to unwrap and repack all those data cards by hand (they were sent to them packed incorrectly), but they're making sure everything gets done properly!

Also, Eddie, they get the parts sent to them separately, then hand-packed into the boxes by the staff (mostly for first printings), so a bit different situation than I think you're referring to.

I can say this: the components look awesome. The data cards are even more numerous and amazing than I expected and are printed on nice heavy stock, and the maps and dice look gorgeous.

Cheers,

Jacovis
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stacey Hager
United States
Charleston
West Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Eddie - just wanted to drop a note to illustrate some concerns. I'm not a GMT staffer or anything, just a fan.

When they receive these materials from their printer, they are not wrapped up, complete games. All of the components are received individually in a lot, each one having been made to spec. The staff at GMT's warehouse then takes all of these separate components and assembles each one into a complete game package. I'm sure this is a substantial amount of work for company with a very small staff. They did not receive the Panzer cards already in a box which did not fit - they received them separate from the boxes. The fact that GMT deliberately took the time to instruct their printer to package the cards in three stacks so that they would fit in the box tells me that quality control is foremost on their minds. Unfortunately, the cards they received were not packaged per their instructions, so now they are taking time and added expense on themselves to make sure the cards are shipped to the customer correctly.

If GMT printed their components on site, then they would not have this problem. But GMT is a game development/distribution business, not a printing business. Due to what I am sure are legitimate economic realities, GMT games are typically printed overseas, which does naturally come with some problems. A misprint on a card may not be caught until GMT has 1000 of them on hand with a deadline looming, even though they approved a sample proof sent by the printer. What do you then do? Well, what GMT does is take extra care to constantly stay in touch with their customers and keep them informed. One person on here remarked to me that GMT treats their customers not as consumers, but as people they maintain a relationship with. And that is true from my vantage.

There are dozens of stories posted on this site giving props to how well GMT responds to concerns - they are bar-none excellent about providing replacement parts to you because of defects, or damaged and missing components (which happen from time to time, I don't care who you are). Also, GMT once extended an offer to anyone who was unemployed due to the economic downturn of recent years - show them proof of unemployment and they will send you two games FREE...they called it "economic relief" I think. That is the kind of people you are dealing with.

I just wanted to illustrate these points before you got totally frustrated due to the delays. Most wargame companies go through similar issues, but none of them handle them as well as GMT does.Personal experience?: My Combat Commander Stalingrad pack was missing it's entire countersheet. After a quick email to GMT, one was shipped to my house no questions asked.

Congratulations on getting into wargaming. You have chosen a good company to buy from - they make some killer titles. I hope you find Panzer to be a fun experience. As a side note, just look at the component quality of that CC P set when you open it up; that particular game is a good example of how high GMT sets the bar.

9 
 Thumb up
0.26
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jacovis
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Edited out for vitriol: Summed up:

If you don't like how P500 works, then don't like how P500 works, but don't blame the company with one of the best track records in P500 and customer service just because you don't like how the process works.

Cheers,

Jacovis

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eddie Carlson
United States
Clarksville
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm not looking for any favors just venting. As a new fan I have shown my support by making game play videos for Panzer as I really believe in the product. Yes, I have learned my lesson from P500 purchases and won't do it again. I'm sure GMT is great in most cases, but for this time I'm disappointed. Thank you for those taking the time to clarify and show support. I was not looking for a fight or argument as the situation is what it is. Sorry if my criticisms have upset anyone. Like I said, just venting, but I'll stop now. Thank you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Tamburo
United States
Justice
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
By the way, their release schedule has since June (before charging) said August for Panzer and expansions. They are still on track for that - the last week of August is still August. The flood/humidity issue was detailed in an earlier newsletter. Better the printer make sure everything dries properly to avoid warping and mold than ship the pieces out prematurely.

And as Stacey covered nicely, remember that they get the components in from different suppliers then assemble and ship from their office/warehouse. That is how the slipup with the data cards occurred basically - the printer did not bundle them per instructions and the way they were shipped would not fit the game box. Therefore GMT is fixing the issue in house.

So making overbroad statements about "shoddy quality control" and "missed deadlines" sound like nonsense. As demonstrated they are still within the timeline for release they published - just on the tail end of it. And if their quality control were really "shoddy" they would have just jammed the cards into the game box regardless of whether they fit or not (as certain other companies have done).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Harrison
United States
Fisher
Illinois
flag msg tools
So long ...
badge
... and thanks for all the fish.
Avatar
mb
Jaedrian wrote:
I can only assume it is normal in this industry for companies to charge your card and not deliver the product until they feel like it.

...

I can only imagine what the next excuse will be.

......

Yes, I have learned my lesson from P500 purchases and won't do it again.

This is one of the most ridiculous interpretations of this I've seen. I wouldn't have made these statements even of Glory to Rome Black Box.

GMT's printer messed up. GMT is fixing it themselves to shorten the delay.
How is that "when they feel like it"?

Mostly, I'm curious what lesson it is that you've learned. "Don't order games?"

Unless you were going to make money off your copy of Panzer, it's difficult to see how a delay (You said you work in the computer industry? Surely that's not the computer gaming industry?) caused by an act of god, and an even slighter delay caused by the provider fixing a problem itself, becomes something so injurious.


In any case, you'll find the patience you're developing invaluable when it comes to actually playing wargames. You've got a head start on most beginners now.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eddie Carlson
United States
Clarksville
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is one of the most ridiculous interpretations of this I've seen. I wouldn't have made these statements even of Glory to Rome Black Box.

With that being said, I get the impression that late shipments are normal.

GMT's printer messed up. GMT is fixing it themselves to shorten the delay.
How is that "when they feel like it"?

Because they will ship it when they think it is ready.

Mostly, I'm curious what lesson it is that you've learned. "Don't order games?"

That is what I learned. I won't do the P500 orders anymore as it's not something I'm used to doing or understand very well and that is not the method for me. After looking around, it does seem very normal for games to be delayed, so that is something for me to get over and accept. I understand that they don't print it there, but did not know GMT assembles the games at their site. Learn something everyday.

But I do appreciate the explanations of how they work and my initial frustration has been settled by understanding it is not GMT's fault. Even though they have missed their original shipping of July, they are working hard to get it out handling issues beyond their control, I'll work on being patient. I would go there and help them if I could.

Again, I am sorry for upsetting so many people. I was just venting frustration at the wrong people about an annoying situation. I have heard many wonderful things about GMT which is why I originally went and ahead and placed a good faith order with them and that just made it frustrating that the one time I deal with them it doesn't go well.

So I'll still get my copies, a couple weeks from now I'll be putting up more videos about game play with actual components and doing the unboxing vids as well and the world will move on. And no, I don't have much patience, but I can learn.
3 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nevin Ball
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
badge
That tickles!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kickstarter is clearly not an option for you then...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Tamburo
United States
Justice
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jaedrian wrote:
This is one of the most ridiculous interpretations of this I've seen. I wouldn't have made these statements even of Glory to Rome Black Box.

With that being said, I get the impression that late shipments are normal.

GMT's printer messed up. GMT is fixing it themselves to shorten the delay.
How is that "when they feel like it"?

Because they will ship it when they think it is ready.

Mostly, I'm curious what lesson it is that you've learned. "Don't order games?"

That is what I learned. I won't do the P500 orders anymore as it's not something I'm used to doing or understand very well and that is not the method for me. After looking around, it does seem very normal for games to be delayed, so that is something for me to get over and accept. I understand that they don't print it there, but did not know GMT assembles the games at their site. Learn something everyday.

But I do appreciate the explanations of how they work and my initial frustration has been settled by understanding it is not GMT's fault. Even though they have missed their original shipping of July, they are working hard to get it out handling issues beyond their control, I'll work on being patient. I would go there and help them if I could.

Again, I am sorry for upsetting so many people. I was just venting frustration at the wrong people about an annoying situation. I have heard many wonderful things about GMT which is why I originally went and ahead and placed a good faith order with them and that just made it frustrating that the one time I deal with them it doesn't go well.

So I'll still get my copies, a couple weeks from now I'll be putting up more videos about game play with actual components and doing the unboxing vids as well and the world will move on. And no, I don't have much patience, but I can learn.


Hey, at least you got to learn some new things about the process of publishing a wargame. And by the way they said charge in July ship in August.

And yes GMT is a class act to put it lightly. Their giving free games to unemployed gamers is just one thing they do. They also support conventions and local events heavily and are far ahead of the rest of the industry in embracing and supporting electronic types of wargaming. It even shows up in their playtesting groups which because they use electronic means are able to complete more playtest games and implement adjustments faster than the old methods of assembling print and play copies.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Borrows
United Kingdom
Leeds
West Yorkshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
This minor delay beyond GMT's control is nothing, try waiting for 3...or is it 4 years, for Rising Sun, the PTO module for Adanced Squad Leader to get released. It isn't even up for pre-order yet.

It seems to me that GMT are still the best company for their production line. They keep gamers informed of their plans, delays and releases, they are polite and produce great games. This complaint seems very unfair to a very fine company.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eddie Carlson
United States
Clarksville
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
No, I stay very clear of kick starter projects. I have seen too many fail to gamble on that. Since this has only been my only interaction with GMT, this is the only experience I've had to base my opinion and feelings on. My wife even asked if this is a known scam company. Another friend said check the BBB and see if they are known for taking money and then making excuses to not send a game. So clearly we haven't dealt with this before. So my initial comments come purely from frustration, but the comments from posters in this thread have really cleared up my misunderstandings.
GMT must be really good to have so many people come and defend them. I read somewhere that GMT is the Microsoft of the boardgame world, clearly, they have never dealt with Microsoft the way our company has. I'll make sure to not hold this delay against them. And yes, from my work, a week is a long time. It is all perception, but I'm learning to adjust.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
D S
Germany
Senftenberg
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Jaedrian wrote:
No, I stay very clear of kick starter projects. I have seen too many fail to gamble on that. Since this has only been my only interaction with GMT, this is the only experience I've had to base my opinion and feelings on. My wife even asked if this is a known scam company. Another friend said check the BBB and see if they are known for taking money and then making excuses to not send a game. So clearly we haven't dealt with this before. So my initial comments come purely from frustration, but the comments from posters in this thread have really cleared up my misunderstandings.
GMT must be really good to have so many people come and defend them. I read somewhere that GMT is the Microsoft of the boardgame world, clearly, they have never dealt with Microsoft the way our company has. I'll make sure to not hold this delay against them. And yes, from my work, a week is a long time. It is all perception, but I'm learning to adjust.


I gave you a thumps up for your willingness to learn, and your patience in regard to some (in my understanding as non-native speaker) in part somewhat offensive answers, even if most were very polite - and all of them absolutely correct concerning the policies of GMT.

And I wanted to thank you for your videos, which helped me to decide if Panzer would be too complex for me or not (I guess not), even if in part still speculative. I am looking forward for the follow-ups, while I will still be waiting even longer than you for the game because of the shipment time delay to Europe.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stacey Hager
United States
Charleston
West Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jaedrian wrote:
No, I stay very clear of kick starter projects. I have seen too many fail to gamble on that. Since this has only been my only interaction with GMT, this is the only experience I've had to base my opinion and feelings on. My wife even asked if this is a known scam company. Another friend said check the BBB and see if they are known for taking money and then making excuses to not send a game. So clearly we haven't dealt with this before. So my initial comments come purely from frustration, but the comments from posters in this thread have really cleared up my misunderstandings.
GMT must be really good to have so many people come and defend them. I read somewhere that GMT is the Microsoft of the boardgame world, clearly, they have never dealt with Microsoft the way our company has. I'll make sure to not hold this delay against them. And yes, from my work, a week is a long time. It is all perception, but I'm learning to adjust.



Eddie -

If there were a Microsoft of boardgaming, that would be Hasbro. But nowadays they are so irrellevant in terms of the hobby gaming scene that no one cares. I work in IT, so i'm familiar with where you are going with this. You will be pleased to hear that those labels don't apply in this segment of the gaming market. All of the wargame publishers are small, and most I suspect personable.

Another thing - Check out stuff from Victory Point games. Everything they sell you is print on demand, an interesting concept in this business. From time to time GMT will actually do deluxe editions of their products using their high-quality production methods.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eddie Carlson
United States
Clarksville
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I will have to say that from all the discussion, regardless how one feels about a company, industry or process, the folks here on the forums are passionate and really care. I myself have come away with a more positive view based soley on the comments shared in the post. I am still very anxious for the game to arrive, and I realize that at the end of the day, it's just a game. Things in my life must be going really good if the only thing irritating me is the delay of a game.

So thank you all for putting up with me and opening my eyes more to the wonderful and admittedly exciting world of war gaming both on and off the board. I hope my future contributions are on a positive note and not negative. I can be negative by nature, but that doesn't mean you all want to read that. Happy gaming and happy unboxing!
7 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe C Faust
United States
Hartville
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jaedrian wrote:
So thank you all for putting up with me and opening my eyes more to the wonderful and admittedly exciting world of war gaming both on and off the board. I hope my future contributions are on a positive note and not negative. I can be negative by nature, but that doesn't mean you all want to read that. Happy gaming and happy unboxing!


No problem. We were all noobs once. Welcome to the hobby!

We all rushed to GMT's defense because they're the standard to which all other companies are held when it comes to customer service. Recently, one of the cards from my Italian deck of CC:Med went missing. I got on their chat line to see if I could buy a new deck. They asked me which card was missing. I told them, and they shipped just the card out, free. They're great people.

On the other side of the coin, if you want to read about a nightmare scenario when it comes to paying for a game and waiting for it to show, check out this long and tortured thread: Total War = Total Wait.

Thanks, btw, for those great Panzer vids. They've definitely increased the salivation factor for this game's arrival.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Galati
United States
Manalapan
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
One thing to look at is that your getting the game at a discount and you will also be getting it before the hobby stores will.

Now wait until their holiday sale in December when all their games go on sale for 50% off.

As for customer service they have been beyond great when I have had to deal with them in the past and they are very supportive of conventions too. What they did for the unemployed gamers a couple of years ago really impressed me beyond anything I ever expected of a company to do.

If all companies were as great as GMT then we would really have very little to complain about. For instance when Space Empires came out their choice of counters was a thin counter and they decided for the expansion to inporve to thicker counters based on customer requests. Now for the rest of us who had the original counter they allowed us to order a new set of counters but then they decided to give it for free in the expansion so for all who ordered and paid for just the extra counters they refunded our money.

To put it plainly I can't praise them enough.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
. .

Apex
North Carolina
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
As the OP...

WOW! This really took on a life of its own.

My comment was intended to convey my jonesing for the game and not as a commentary on anything GMT related.

Some people took it, perhaps, as critique to which I'd suggest a few things:

1 - GMT has the best reputation in the market as producing on what they say they'll do.
2 - GMT's P500 system is the most predictable and easy to deal with one out there, not to mention one of the fastest moving.
3 - GMT has a commitment to "getting it right" that few other companies have demonstrated.
4 - GMT are just good people see holiday sale & unemployment discounts
7 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ted Spencer
United States
Lake in the Hills
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jaedrian wrote:
Quote:
Mostly, I'm curious what lesson it is that you've learned. "Don't order games?"
That is what I learned. I won't do the P500 orders anymore as it's not something I'm used to doing or understand very well and that is not the method for me.
Nonononono! This is exactly the wrong lesson! You should buy more wargames! Get a tall stack you don't have time to play. Then, when delays happen, you won't notice it! I purchased the game & two expansions knowing I won't even get to them before February 2013!

If you don't like delays, buy more games!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eddie Carlson
United States
Clarksville
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, maybe not buy more games. However, my wife got me combat commander pacific, so that will hold me over until panzer arrives. To be honest, my initial displeasure was solely based on all the good things I read about GMT and then when I make the plunge into my first wargame purchase from them, the experience is not up to my pre-conceived expectations. But, as has been pointed out, it's the printer causing issues I should be disappointed with. But, I will admit that GMT is trying to get quality out to us and I'll admit I really like CCP, so they do put out a good game.

So I know I'll be happy when Panzer arrives. Besides, this thread has brought about some attention that it hasn't had in awhile. Maybe not the best attention, but some attention anyway!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.