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Subject: Strategies for getting well past 100 points rss

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Dave Hooper
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When we play Lords of Waterdeep we usually find that the winner gets about 105 points and last place (4th or 5th) gets about 85-90 points. I read the post about the GenCon tournament and the OP got 125 points (and came second) in one game and then won another with 145. How do you get that many points?

We generally all follow our Lord (and so do the right sorts of quest), we buy some (about 4-5) buildings and so get the bonus points that build up on them each turn, we make sure we don't end up with loads of cubes of the 'wrong' colour at the end etc. What are we missing?

We all find the game fun but seeing that it's possible to get nearly half as many points again suggests that we're missing some tactical depth that would make it even better.

PS Isn't the box design brilliant? I've never seen a game where *everything* has a specific place and fits perfectly before
 
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Bjørnar Løseth
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My wife scored 186 points last time, with both contenders at 133 points. I believe it's very related to number of players in this game. In a 2-player-game I believe it is very likely to score more than 200 for the winner.


EDIT: Yes, the insert is fantastic. But the box lid is terrible.
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Don Riddle
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i wouldn't say the box lid is "terrible." it's a little impractical, and sometimes gets hung up on the split edge of the bottom box, but it's a unique and attractive design. it could certainly be better but it's far from terrible.
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Lee Fisher
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Those scores sound somewhat low, but it depends a lot on which buildings come out and how rare resources are. I did have at least one 4 or 5p game in that range where we had buildings that were not that helpful.
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Dave Hooper
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So it possibly sounds like we're under using buildings. I guess they're not that expensive so there's not really an excuse for not building one pretty much every round?
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M. B. Downey
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dmch2 wrote:
What are we missing?


dmch2 wrote:
We generally all follow our Lord (and so do the right sorts of quest)


Simply completing quests that match your Lord card is rarely the right strategy.
 
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Dave Hooper
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Quote:
Simply completing quests that match your Lord card is rarely the right strategy.


That's my point - what strategies are we missing?
 
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M. B. Downey
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dmch2 wrote:
That's my point - what strategies are we missing?


You told us your strategy, I pointed out one possible problem, so go and find a solution. Try experimenting with different quest selections. The strategies will reveal themselves, and I think it's more fun to experience it and figure it out on your own.
 
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Wally Jones
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Easy. Play a two-player game.
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Don Riddle
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dmch2 wrote:
That's my point - what strategies are we missing?

firstly, the amount of points you end up with will greatly depend on which Quests/Buildings become available during your game. you can't really do anythiing to "guarantee" yourself a high scoring game.

but secondly, my one tip is to pay attention to the RATIO of adventurers/money spent to VP received. oh, and buy Buildings.
 
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Dave Hooper
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riddle13 wrote:

but secondly, my one tip is to pay attention to the RATIO of adventurers/money spent to VP received. oh, and buy Buildings.


Ah right OK that makes sense. I'm normally concerned that I don't want to 'waste' actions getting better quests but it sounds like that's an area where it *can* be worth putting in the effort to get a better quest.

I guess this is especially true if you've done the quest that gives you an extra orange cube as it means that the ratio of values for you has changed:
from 1 money = 2 orange = 2 black = 4 purple = 4 white.
to 1 money = 1.3 orange = 2 black = 4 purple = 4 white.

So the effective cost of a 4xOrange 2xBlack 1xPurple 2xMoney quest drops from 8+4+4+2=18 to 5.3+4+4+2=15.3 but you still get the same reward.

Similarly having a building that gets you the odd free black cube will make black effectively cheaper. Hence buildings not only get you the points on them but the free stuff you get when they're used have a much bigger effect on your own choices of quest than I'd thought.

Right thanks - that's some more depth and thought to put into my next few games
 
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William Minsinger
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From my admittedly meager experience (only two games, but 2nd place in both) I'd say that getting better quests is rarely a waste of an action. If you're quick about it then you can get the quest + 2 gold OR an intrigue card, both of which are worthwhile.

-Will
 
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Patrick Reynolds
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I've only played once, a three-player game that was a first play for all of us, but we all ended with over 100 points. I had something like 145 points, with maybe 130 and 115 for the other players.

I completed three quests that granted 25, 25 and 24 VPs, so there's a little more than half of my points right there. Another 40ish came from my Lord card, and the rest were miscellaneous VPs from lesser quests or building rewards.

It doesn't seem too difficult to clear 100 points. As with any game of this type, it's really about maximizing your worker placement. Plan ahead for quest completion and then take as few actions as possible to gather the necessary resources.

It's also good to have a few buildings on the board that you control which are attractive to the other players and give good owner rewards, so pay attention to what your opponents are doing and build accordingly. Getting resources that aid you in your goals without needing to use an action is amazing. I had a building that allowed a player to swap any two resources for any three resources, and as the owner I got 2 coins whenever it was used by an opponent. For example, my main strategy revolved around building, which required lots of coins, and I was getting 2 coins every round from it, which greatly fueled my ability to keep buying new buildings.
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Ian Goth
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I played Lords of Waterdeep game for the first time today (with 5 players) and won with about 135 points, with all the other players in the neighborhood of 115, all within 5 points of each other. If I did that in my first game, it can't be all that hard to do. It may not be all that useful to you, but here's some of my thoughts on the game.

I finished 7 lord quests (arcana and commerce) I think 4 others. The guy with the building lord got 6 buildings for 36 points, and the others each got 5-6 lord quests. I focused mainly on the low-value lord quests and took non-lord quests opportunistically. I didn't really get any good plot quests, but most of my quests had some kind of immediate reward (intrigue cards, a new quest, resources, gold). FWIW, I bought only one building, but it was easily the best one on the board (user gets [?][?], owner gets [?]), and I bought it on turn 1. I really think that building won me the game, especially since it meant I basically never had to spend an agent to get a wizard or priest, and I needed a fair number of each. Other than that, I probably played the most intrigue cards (maybe 8), having gone slightly out of my way to take quests that gave me free ones. The extra resources I got from those cards let me take and complete a couple valuable non-lord quests, but the biggest card was a mandatory quest I put on the guy who took the extra agent quest in round 1. He finally finished it in round 5-6, I think.
 
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Dave Hooper
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My gaming group is on hold at the moment so I'm waiting for my copy to come in the post. Plenty of things for me to try when it arrives.

One other thing I though is that maybe we were a bit more aggressive with intrigue cards to slow down other players?
 
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Andri Sturluson
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It also helps if you are not competing with others for your quests. If you are the only one who has a lord with arcana for example, than you have it easier than two players who both have warfare.
 
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Fel Barros
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Like any other worker placement game, try to get most out of your actions.

The space where you can later reuse the worker is a great example. Try to activate buildings that directly impact your goals (have them clearly defined ahead) and always ask to yourself what's your plan before settling your guy there.

Planning a little ahead is a key feature in Waterdeep. Good luck!

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Chris Hurd
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There are plenty of trap plays in this game. Several buildings are only worth building if they have 6 or more VP counters on them. Meaning, you don't want to build these buildings for their effect. Your ownership bonus is too low compared to what you "give away" to your opponents. There are similar trap quests that do not provide a big enough incentive to complete them, unless you're also getting your lord's bonus on it. If you identify the trap plays and simply avoid them, your score probably goes up 5-10 points right there.

Secondly, quest selection is pretty important. The two most important quests in the game are the +2VP plot quests in your lord's bonuses (or the one most important quest if you're the builder lord). Don't be afraid to fish for them, and don't be afraid to flush other people's plot quests using the refresh. Beyond that, there are a couple important high-value quests in each set, and a couple good plot quests, and then everything else is relatively meaningless.

Lastly, you don't have to complete quests in rounds 1-4 in the game. At all. You're probably not going to complete more than 12 quests in a game, and even if you manage to do so, you can increase your available completions by playing into Waterdeep Harbor. You should delay completion until you know whether or not you can get to your +2VP plot quest.
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Bjørnar Løseth
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The other day my wife beat me severely and set a new high score: 209 points (2 player). gulp

http://boardgamegeek.com/play/details/8009211

.. with the new DnDeeples I got from
Danny Perello
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Joe Bowers
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Play 2 player. My wife and I play every night and both of us always score over 200 points, her highest is 260 and mine is 282. The earlier you do plot quests like Recruit the Lieutenant and Griffon Cavalry, the higher your scores will be. Also, do many smaller quests of your lord instead of doing the big quests. Look for quests that give a high point return for fewer guys, like the Piety and Arcane 5xP 5xW quests, or the Commerce quest that costs BOW 4G for 15 points. Try to chain your quest rewards into future quests. Play as many Intrigue cards as possible. Try not to end the game with any quests, as the turns used to get them are wasted. Buy only good buildings that will be used every turn (unless you buy them for points later). Do quests that give rewards like Intrigue cards over quests that just give points. Do point plot quests before other quests of that type. Do only quests of your Lord unless its at the very end of the game or its a plot quest too good to pass up (2 for 1 warriors, gold when you get rogues, rogue when you get gold, Intrigue cards with wizards.) Do not complete the lieutenant quest after turn 4, you will not get a return on the investment. Dont buy 8 gold buildings after turn 5. Watch what your opponent needs and try to block them from getting what they want if possible, especially if it delays them completing good plot quests or mandatory quests.
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Eric B.
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dmch2 wrote:
... we make sure we don't end up with loads of cubes of the 'wrong' colour at the end etc. What are we missing?


This isn't always a "bad" thing, per se. I've only played once when someone else taught me the game, but if I remember correctly aren't cubes each worth 1VP and every two coins worth 1VP at the end?

So, in the final placements of the game if you can't do anything better you might as well grab as many cubes/coins as you can for the additional VPs. Having "loads" of cubes at the end is like having "loads" of VPs, and can sometimes be better than using them to complete a last turn mandatory Quest or some random low-VP quest that doesn't match your Lord.
 
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John Smith
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I played my first 2 games last weekend and scored 120 and 150-ish. I don't know what the OP missed but I thought the game rather simple build buildings, complete quests. I didn't see any mysterious or nuanced strategy.
 
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