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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Alric Overpower ability rss

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Ingólfur Valsson
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So reading this ability it say make a move action and you can replace a hero figure each time you move into a adjacent space. Are we talking about ending movement there or could he actually do it 3 times in one move action as he has 3 in speed?
 
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Andrew Fillhart
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Need more details, unsure as to what you're talking about...
 
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(Chuck Singer)
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I wasn't even sure the overpower ability costed a movement point. I'd have to check, but I think Alric has 3 movement points. If you moved one space to be adjacent to a hero and passed the might check, you could swap places with that hero and still have 2 movement points left. If the overpower maneuver put you adjacent to another hero, could you use overpower again? Essentially, you could daisy chain through a wall of heroes for no movement points?
 
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Matt Albritton
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You still have to move into an adjacent space to trigger the ability so the most you could do it was three times per move action. I also don't see why you couldn't do it to the same hero as long as you kept passing the might check.
 
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R N
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This is a bit cheesy IMO, prepare for the heroes to glare at you while performing such a manouver.
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Ingólfur Valsson
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Zerrian wrote:
Need more details, unsure as to what you're talking about...


Lieutenant Alric Farrow, has the ability Overpower, at least on hist Act I part.

Chuck Singer wrote:
I wasn't even sure the overpower ability costed a movement point. I'd have to check, but I think Alric has 3 movement points. If you moved one space to be adjacent to a hero and passed the might check, you could swap places with that hero and still have 2 movement points left. If the overpower maneuver put you adjacent to another hero, could you use overpower again? Essentially, you could daisy chain through a wall of heroes for no movement points?


It's a action, a modified move action if you will. It says you have to move into the space so my guess is that he can't chain move without moving at least one space in between.

A0HHHH
000000


so if 0 is empty and A is alric H is hero I think he couldn't move into
0 and switch place with first, then second and so on so it ends up like this and still have two movement points left.

0HHHHA
000000


But he could move to 0 and switch, then move below diagonally next and switch like this.

A0HHHH -> 0HAHHH -> 0H0AHH -> 0H00AH
000000 000000 000H00 000HH0


Kubigaruma wrote:
You still have to move into an adjacent space to trigger the ability so the most you could do it was three times per move action. I also don't see why you couldn't do it to the same hero as long as you kept passing the might check.


Yeah this is how I understood it but found it strange, saved my butt though in Castle Darion because otherwise the Knight would have just swallowed all the attack on Sir Palamon with his Guard ability.

slacks wrote:
This is a bit cheesy IMO, prepare for the heroes to glare at you while performing such a manouver.


Yeah it is, I was thinking that perhaps the intention was that he would end the movement in adjacent space and then be able to move the Hero.

The players would abuse a ruling like this so why not the overlord.
 
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Matt Albritton
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KronikAlkoholik wrote:
slacks wrote:
This is a bit cheesy IMO, prepare for the heroes to glare at you while performing such a manouver.


Yeah it is, I was thinking that perhaps the intention was that he would end the movement in adjacent space and then be able to move the Hero.

The players would abuse a ruling like this so why not the overlord.


I don't see it as cheesy. It's much less devastating than the twisty, turny, Dragon's Breath and at least Alric is a lieutenant.
 
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Ingólfur Valsson
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Sorry for the Necro but was this ever FAQ'ed. Who would we email for such a question. Is anyone compiling questions like this?
 
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JH
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There is a thread and wiki where answers to questions are being compiled.

This one isn't at all ambiguous, though. The wording of the ability is:
Quote:
Sir Alric Farrow performs a move action. Each time he moves into a space adjacent to a hero, Alric may test Might. If he passes, he may trade spaces with that hero and the hero suffers 1 Fatigue.

Emphasis mine. Given that he can perform the test each time he moves adjacent to a hero, not at the end of his movement, I don't think there's really any question as to whether he can do this multiple times in a single instance of the action.

You can submit a rules question to FFG here.
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Sam Blomberg
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Sorry you had not received a definitive answer on this one. I think we may still be able to discern the intended meaning on our own.
KronikAlkoholik wrote:
So reading this ability it say make a move action and you can replace a hero figure each time you move into a adjacent space. Are we talking about ending movement there or could he actually do it 3 times in one move action as he has 3 in speed?

Let's walk through the skill description:

"Sir Alric Farrow performs a move action." Which, as we've learned from the Official FAQ, grants him 3 move points to be spent during his turn.

"Each time he moves into a space adjacent to a hero, Alric may test..." As you've observed, the condition moves into a space adjacent to a hero can be met multiple times while spending movement points, and FFG makes it clear that Alric may test ... Each time. If the swap was only meant to happen once, the rules could have stated something like "When Alric ends his movement in a space adjacent to a hero, he may test..."


If you still don't think that's clear, you can always ask for a rule clarification from the publisher with the FFG Rules Question form: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_faq.asp

We've been adding the FFG responses to an "FFG Sez" thread here: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/863073/ffg-sez-thread-link-t..., which then get compiled into the Descent Unofficial FAQ here for easier readability: http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Descent_Second_Edition_Un...

Edit: The two minute ninja strikes again! ninja
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JH
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sblomberg wrote:
Edit: The two minute ninja strikes again! :ninja:

Mwa-ha-hah!
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Ingólfur Valsson
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Sarcasmorator wrote:
There is a thread and wiki where answers to questions are being compiled.

This one isn't at all ambiguous, though. The wording of the ability is:
Quote:
Sir Alric Farrow performs a move action. Each time he moves into a space adjacent to a hero, Alric may test Might. If he passes, he may trade spaces with that hero and the hero suffers 1 Fatigue.

Emphasis mine. Given that he can perform the test each time he moves adjacent to a hero, not at the end of his movement, I don't think there's really any question as to whether he can do this multiple times in a single instance of the action.

You can submit a rules question to FFG here.


Yeah that's how I understood it but it felt a little wrong somehow. But it was necessary so I wouldn't have totally lost as Overlord.

I'm happy with this as a answer.
 
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Dawid
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And what about this...

As a lieutenant Alric may walk through other monsters.
Assuming, a hero stand adjacent to a monster...
Can Alric use Overpower action to enter space containing a monster and trade this space with a hero?
As I understand, it is not interrupting move action with other action. Test happens as a part of Overpower action.
If yes, then where goes a hero?
It cannot share the same space with a monster.
 
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Siu Kee Lee
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Although the FAQ didn't state anything specific about Overpower, I believe the "empty space" ruling should apply to this ability as well; i.e. Overpower should read "Each time he moves into an empty space adjacent..."

We can bring this up as a ruling question, but I believe that's the only way it makes sense.
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M K
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I cases like this the general consensus is that Alric is interrupting his move action in order to perform his special ability. Therefor he must be able to occupy the space in which he is interrupting his move action. If he cannot legally occupy the space then the action cannot be interrupted.
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D P
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Ignipes wrote:
And what about this...

As a lieutenant Alric may walk through other monsters.
Assuming, a hero stand adjacent to a monster...
Can Alric use Overpower action to enter space containing a monster and trade this space with a hero?
As I understand, it is not interrupting move action with other action. Test happens as a part of Overpower action.
If yes, then where goes a hero?
It cannot share the same space with a monster.


I disagree somewhat with the last responses concerning Overpower.

Alric's overpower ability must be used when he is initially in an empty, valid space, as it is an action.

After using the ability, though, I believe he may then move into a monster and test a hero to trade places with that hero or not. If not, he must continue his movement, which can be to move out from the monster.

Using the regular 'if a figure cannot be placed in a spot, it's placed in the nearest empty spot' rule that seems to appear so much in relation to other things, the hero would be moved to the nearest empty spot if the Overpower ability was successful.

This would be a good question to pose to FFG, because he's not interrupting a move action to perform another action in an invalid space, which is what the FAQ covers, and it also brings up the aforementioned rule that isn't quite a rule but appears everywhere so should be a rule... rule.
 
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M K
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firedale2002 wrote:


I disagree somewhat with the last responses concerning Overpower.

Alric's overpower ability must be used when he is initially in an empty, valid space, as it is an action.

After using the ability, though, I believe he may then move into a monster and test a hero to trade places with that hero or not. If not, he must continue his movement, which can be to move out from the monster.

Using the regular 'if a figure cannot be placed in a spot, it's placed in the nearest empty spot' rule that seems to appear so much in relation to other things, the hero would be moved to the nearest empty spot if the Overpower ability was successful.

This would be a good question to pose to FFG, because he's not interrupting a move action to perform another action in an invalid space, which is what the FAQ covers, and it also brings up the aforementioned rule that isn't quite a rule but appears everywhere so should be a rule... rule.


One of the reasons I disagree with your response is: What happens when Alric is at the end of his movement points and then tries to switch spaces with a hero, or if he has one movement point left and has no empty space with in one movement as he is passing through other monsters and fails his check. He cannot continue to move to the next available space as he doesn't have enough movement points left. Because of this it only makes sense if the space he is doing the check from must be a space he can legally occupy if he fails his test.
 
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Dawid
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I've got FFG response from Justin Kemppainen
Justin Kemppainen wrote:
Overpower should read "empty space" for when he is able to trigger the Might test. We'll make a note of that, thanks!

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