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Subject: Port vs Harbor? rss

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Daniel Berger
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What's the functional difference between a port and a harbor? Is there an explanation of what the harbor space is for in the rulebook that I've missed?
 
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Steffan O'Sullivan
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You can build ships only in ports. You can safely retreat to a harbor if all your ports are enemy occupied.
 
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Paul Borchers
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You'll notice that ports have a "status" space on each player's Port Chart that indicates whether or not they are active. Active ports are the only places that each player may build ships, whereas ships can anchor at either ports or harbors when they aren't on the lakes.

Note that a player can only use the ports and harbors listed on their own chart. For example, even if the British control Lake Erie and have troops that occupy Presque Isle, they still can't use the port at Presque Isle. As mentioned in the rules, only the Americans can use Put-in Bay as a harbor, and there's no way for a British Expedition to take control of it.
 
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Daniel Berger
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sos1 wrote:
You can build ships only in ports. You can safely retreat to a harbor if all your ports are enemy occupied.

So, if the lake is enemy occupied, and the port is enemy occupied, I can just keep my ships in harbor? Can enemy ships enter the harbor to engage my fleet?
 
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Paul Borchers
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The enemy ships cannot force their way into a port or harbor that their side does not control. If an enemy land Expedition takes a port or harbor at which you have ships, the ships have to move to another friendly port or harbor.

If no friendly ports or harbors exist for your ships on that lake, then your ship are on the lake and subject to combat with the enemy lake expedition if the enemy controls the lake. Otherwise, you would then control the lake, but you would need a port or harbor for your ships at the start of the winter turn. If you have no friendly port or harbor at that point, your ships are considered scuttled (sunk) at that time. Likewise, if you have ships at a friendly port or harbor during a winter turn, and an enemy land Expedition takes control of that port or harbor, your ships cannot sail on the frozen lake and are considered sunk.
 
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Daniel Berger
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mr_peabody wrote:
The enemy ships cannot force their way into a port or harbor that their side does not control. If an enemy land Expedition takes a port or harbor at which you have ships, the ships have to move to another friendly port or harbor.

How can a land expedition take control of a harbor? Based on an earlier answer, I thought I could move my ships to the harbor if the port was captured.
 
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Paul Borchers
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Okay, now I see what you mean based on Steffan's answer. I don't think he meant to give you that impression.

The only difference between ports and harbors is that ships can be built at ports. Ships can choose to anchor at either a port or a harbor. Enemy land expeditions can take control of any friendly port or harbor (except for Put-in Bay). A friendly fleet that occupies a port or harbor that falls to an enemy land Expedition can move to an other friendly port or harbor on the same lake.
 
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Steffan O'Sullivan
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Paul is right, sorry about my sloppy language. I meant retreat to a harbor from the lake, not from a captured port.
 
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Daniel Berger
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mr_peabody wrote:
Okay, now I see what you mean based on Steffan's answer. I don't think he meant to give you that impression.

The only difference between ports and harbors is that ships can be built at ports. Ships can choose to anchor at either a port or a harbor. Enemy land expeditions can take control of any friendly port or harbor (except for Put-in Bay). A friendly fleet that occupies a port or harbor that falls to an enemy land Expedition can move to an other friendly port or harbor on the same lake.

Right, got it, thanks!
 
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Kevin McPartland
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Not everybody knows the difference between these two words (that was a surprise to me!) and that has caused some confusion. According to Dictionary.com:

Harbor- a part of a body of water along the shore deep enough for anchoring a ship and so situated... to provide protection from winds, waves, and currents.

Port- a city, town, or other place where ships load or unload. [Essentially, a harbor with facilities.]

It game terms, ships on the lakes can take shelter in any Harbor or Port (as shown on the map and listed on the players' Port Charts) in their Home Country. You can't shelter there if the enemy controls the area that the Harbor or Port is in. A port is different from a harbor because you can build new ships in ports.

Hope this helps!

Kevin
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David Dockter
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"It game terms, ships on the lakes can take shelter in any Harbor or Port (as shown on the map and listed on the players' Port Charts) in their Home Country."

Just wondering, so, even if you capture a harbor or port in the enemy's home country - and control the space - you can't take shelter there? Is that is what is meant by "in their Home Country"?
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Paul Borchers
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Quote:
Just wondering, so, even if you capture a harbor or port in the enemy's home country - and control the space - you can't take shelter there? Is that is what is meant by "in their Home Country"?


Correct. Kevin indicated in a previous answer (here or CSW) that such a port or harbor wouldn't be considered secure enough from the locals for enemy ships to anchor there. All it would take is enough initiative from someone with a torch to destroy a valuable enemy asset. Apparently neither side contemplated using captured ports/harbors during the war.

That's why the Port Charts contain ports and harbors that start in friendly territory, and not every port and harbor on the lake.
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David Dockter
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Got it. Makes sense.
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