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Doctor Who: The Card Game» Forums » General

Subject: End of game wonkiness.... rss

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Joel Eddy
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Played a few games of this so far. I like it. There are two "end of game conditions". One of them is NOT satisfying the first time it happens.

One: Someone runs out of either Daleks or TARDIS. This is how most games seem to end so far. It's also the most satisfying. Basically, whoever can set up their hand to dump either their Daleks or TARDIS will set themselves up to win. Well... if they took into proper account everything on the board.

Two: You reveal the End of Game card that is 20 cards from the bottom. Then everyone plays one action per turn.

So at this point, Defenders are totally worthless. Because as soon as you you put a Defender at a location with an Enemy it will be revealed, making it impossible to stack them up as a team. All of the Defenders are pretty weak on their own, and 9 times out of 10 will get whacked. It does add a bit to the meta game though, as keeping those "blow up an entire attack of enemies" cards are much better at the end.

/shrug

I understand why everyone doesn't play normal turns, as it would add way too much luck at the end of the game, but I figured people may find this second end game condition wonky. There's probably not a very good way around it, and it is relatively "plannable".

Thoughts? I find it interesting that since this has happened, I never want to play locations in front of me.
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Gareth Hanrahan
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You can play multiple defenders (or attackers) as a single action. Playing, say, Rory, Amy and the Doctor is a single action if you've got all three in your hand.
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Mark Gerrits
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Reading the rules on Cubicle's website, it seems to me that playing multiple defense cards to the same location counts as only one action, so there wouldn't be a problem.
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Mark Gerrits
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Tag team!
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Joel Eddy
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Got it. OK that makes sense re-reading the rules.

It doesn't really matter in the earlier rounds, because you don't really even have actions. At least that's the way I have found it easier to explain the game. "Just play until you have three cards left in your hand".

I may have to re-think that explanation.

Thanks!
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Eric Rampson
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It's odd that you are seeing the five Dalek/Tardis ending more often than the End Of Game card ending. A player has to have all five Dalek or Tardis counters out AT THE START OF THEIR TURN. That means each other players have to be unable to either: A) Defend against one of attack by the player with all five Dalek counters out; or B) Have no Enemies in hand in order to immediately remove a Tardis counter from a location in front of the player with all five Tardis counters out. The Tardis counter ending seems especially unlikely, since all an opponent needs is ANY Enemy card to remove one. The Dalek ending is a little more manageable, although it is bad luck for the other players if NONE of them has a Defender card in hand and/or they can't muster the power to successfully defend one attack.

In the seven or so games we played during GenCon, only once did a player manage to get all five Daleks out at one time. By the time it got back to him, he had one active attack left, and the game continued.
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Eric Rampson
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Pre-Emptive Rules Citing:

The Rules wrote:
The game will end immediately if at the beginning of your turn you have all five of your Dalek counters or all five of your Tardis counters in play. Page 9, first sentence


Emphasis mine.
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Joel Eddy
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Scud-O wrote:
A player has to have all five Dalek or Tardis counters out AT THE START OF THEIR TURN.


Oh.... Well that's because I've been playing it wrong.

We were playing... "gets them out... period".

Wow. That changes things.... and might even lessen the enjoyment of the game... Will have to see.



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Eric Rampson
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This game is an odd one. At first, it seems to be a light, fun game of sending enemies at your opponents and playing heroes to defend your locations. Really though, it's all about setting yourself up for the endgame. All the attacking and defending going on prior to the End Of Game card popping up is just positioning. The person with the biggest hand full of the best cards when your enter the endgame phase is going to win. Right now, it seems to me that hording your time points is the best strategy. Using your one action during an endgame turn to spend five time points and draw a card, effectively stalling a turn, is super-powerful. The person that gets to play out several cards after everyone else is out of cards has a good shot at winning.

The passing mechanic is really very clever, too. Several times I found myself having to rethink my turn because, after playing the cards I wanted to play, I was going to pass a really good mix of cards to my neighbor. We really started using the Reserve more effectively at that point.
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Joel Eddy
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Scud-O wrote:

The passing mechanic is really very clever, too. Several times I found myself having to rethink my turn because, after playing the cards I wanted to play, I was going to pass a really good mix of cards to my neighbor. We really started using the Reserve more effectively at that point.


Absolutely agree with that. I will get some plays in playing it right now. What we were doing was akin to what you describe, but just trying to setup a huge turn to dump Daleks or TARDIS. The card for the extra reserve slot was really helpful there.
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Gareth Hanrahan
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Scud-O wrote:
The person that gets to play out several cards after everyone else is out of cards has a good shot at winning.


Nope - the game ends as soon as one player can't take an action when it's their turn. So, if you pack your hand in the Endgame, you'll be left holding a lot of cards when another player runs out. That doesn't mean you're wrong about hoarding time points - you can rack up a high score by slamming down locations after everyone else is out of attackers - but the game does end pretty quickly once you hit endgame.
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Eric Rampson
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So it will. Interesting. Now THAT may actually lower my enjoyment of the game. I liked the forward planning aspect of ensuring a large hand for the endgame. We'll see how playing be the correct rules changes that.
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Joel Eddy
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Played with the correct rules tonight and then traded it for Agricola: All Creatures Big and Small.

I feel like the game is almost solid. But, once you get the hang of it, the "pass three cards" thing just becomes annoying. To play this right, cut the deck in half. Otherwise, what is the point of the first half of the game really... Everyone just bides their time, until the end.

I like the idea of being able to end the game immediately once you get all your TARDIS or Dalek counters out. There was a real tension there that is completely lost. So, my experience may be colored a bit, but it just feels super anti-climactic now.

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Mark Chaplin
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Quote:
I like the idea of being able to end the game immediately once you get all your TARDIS or Dalek counters out. There was a real tension there that is completely lost. So, my experience may be colored a bit, but it just feels super anti-climactic now.


It'd also be WAY too easy to win. There would be no back and forth - just a quick rush to mount 5 attacks.


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Joel Eddy
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Yugblad wrote:
Quote:
I like the idea of being able to end the game immediately once you get all your TARDIS or Dalek counters out. There was a real tension there that is completely lost. So, my experience may be colored a bit, but it just feels super anti-climactic now.


It'd also be WAY too easy to win. There would be no back and forth - just a quick rush to mount 5 attacks.




Quite the opposite. You have to be on top of the other players at all times from the first turn forward, not just starting in the last half of the game.
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Mark Chaplin
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eekamouse wrote:
Yugblad wrote:
Quote:
I like the idea of being able to end the game immediately once you get all your TARDIS or Dalek counters out. There was a real tension there that is completely lost. So, my experience may be colored a bit, but it just feels super anti-climactic now.


It'd also be WAY too easy to win. There would be no back and forth - just a quick rush to mount 5 attacks.




Quite the opposite. You have to be on top of the other players at all times from the first turn forward, not just starting in the last half of the game.


I'd be willing to give it a try that way.


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