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Subject: token dumping rss

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4tran A
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Sometimes player A desperately needs black tokens and player B has them all. When can player B dump them?

I recall that a similar question has been asked in another thread. It basically concluded that when fighting ghosts, one is not required to use the dice. By that same logic, player B could fight a blue ghost, and dump black tokens at it, dealing 0 damage. OTOH, boardgamegeek.com/thread/561970/discarding-tao-tokens-for-circle-of-prayer concluded that tokens can only be used when necessary.

It would be nicer if player B could dump his tokens whenever he wanted.

On a similar note, is a player required to take everything the herbalist shop offers? If he wants blue, but can't take black without screwing over player A...

Finally, if player B has black tokens, but there are none in the bank, can player B put a black token on circle of prayer?
The manual says "... or perform an exchange with the one already present." It's implying with the bank, but English is an ambiguous language, and technically, exchanging with the player's supply is still "an exchange".
 
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Basically with Ghost Stories, if it makes the game easier, you can't do it. Such is the case with all your questions above. devil
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4tran wrote:
Sometimes player A desperately needs black tokens and player B has them all. When can player B dump them?
AFAIK, the only time I know of (there may be other cases I'm not aware of mind you) is when you attempt an excorcism, you can throw in TT (whether they match nor not such as blue TT against a yellow ghost, or whether you need them or not such as you already rolled 2 red but can throw in an additional red TT).

4tran wrote:
I recall that a similar question has been asked in another thread. It basically concluded that when fighting ghosts, one is not required to use the dice. By that same logic, player B could fight a blue ghost, and dump black tokens at it, dealing 0 damage. OTOH, http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/561970/discarding-tao-tokens... concluded that tokens can only be used when necessary.

It would be nicer if player B could dump his tokens whenever he wanted.
laugh... the OP deleted his OP.

Only thing I can recall (again, consider myself to 90% "rules aware") is if you roll the die and can kill a ghost, then you MUST (thus, forcing to trigger the penalties on the right stone, but also potentially exhausting tokens in the bank), so this sort of thing can trigger on corner fights that "go the wrong way"

4tran wrote:
On a similar note, is a player required to take everything the herbalist shop offers? If he wants blue, but can't take black without screwing over player A...
AFAIK... yes. The rules don't state "he may", so the default thinking is it must be done.

4tran wrote:
Finally, if player B has black tokens, but there are none in the bank, can player B put a black token on circle of prayer?
The manual says "... or perform an exchange with the one already present." It's implying with the bank, but English is an ambiguous language, and technically, exchanging with the player's supply is still "an exchange".
I'm going to say that the swap or first placement can only by from a TT from the bank.
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ackmondual wrote:
AFAIK, the only time I know of (there may be other cases I'm not aware of mind you) is when you attempt an excorcism, you can throw in TT (whether they match nor not such as blue TT against a yellow ghost, or whether you need them or not such as you already rolled 2 red but can throw in an additional red TT).

What do you base this upon? The rules say that after rolling the dice "If a player fails to obtain the necessary faces, he may spent Tao tokens of the color he needs in order to cover the difference".

I've never read anything indicating that you can spend Tao of a color that doesn't match the ghost you are killing, or in greater number than required to kill the ghost. You can use Tao rather than dice if you choose, but if you can get rid of Tao that aren't directly applied to ghosts during an exorcism, it's news to me.

The best way to get rid of excess Tao is to be on the same tile as another Taoist who is conducting an exorcism, in which case they can use your Tao rather than their own.
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Yeah I've also never heard of this "dumping tokens" at an inappropriate ghost.

It doesn't sound very thematic. You've worked hard to build up tao tokens and then you just dump them uselessly? For someone else to slowly pick up?

Quote:
The best way to get rid of excess Tao is to be on the same tile as another Taoist who is conducting an exorcism, in which case they can use your Tao rather than their own.

I'm assuming you meant they can use both players tao? (ie don't need to choose one set) (Just confirming for the peeps)
This method is very thematic to me ... all working together to defeat the ghost. We plan for it a lot.

Regarding the Circle of Prayer, yes, if there are no spare tokens of that colour in the bank, you can't set it to that colour. (And the Circle starts off the game empty)

Does anyone else play with people who insist on referring to "Daoist" and "Dao Tokens"? (Apparently that's the right way these days!) Luckily not all the different people I play with are so insistent
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4tran A
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Somehow, I'm not surprised most of you go with "if it's not mentioned, it's illegal" or "if it makes the game easier, it's illegal".

If you're going to argue about "theme", explain to me why a village would have only 4 bowls of sticky rice? shake

Rainbow Snake wrote:

Does anyone else play with people who insist on referring to "Daoist" and "Dao Tokens"? (Apparently that's the right way these days!) Luckily not all the different people I play with are so insistent


"Tao" came from the antiquated Wade Giles romanization system (wiki it). It's why Beijing is sometimes referred to as Peking, and Mao Zedong is sometimes bastardized into Mao Tse-tung. It does not resemble any dialect of Chinese that I'm aware of. Then again, the "standard" is a Communist invention, so I could see why some people don't like it :S

In the context of English use, dao doesn't exactly sound right, though tao doesn't sound great either. The typical English pronunciation of dao ~ dow sounds more like the 3rd tone, which corresponds to (among other things) falling/tipping over, than to the correct 4th tone.
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Actually, the "It's not mentioned, so it doesn't work" makes sense. The rules outline how a game works, so if the rules don't discuss something, it's reasonable to assume that it isn't in the game, no matter how reasonable it seems to have it. With the older versions of the rules, when there were still quite a few holes, it didn't seem unlikely that something was missed, but now we have updated rules, two expansions, and a couple of FAQs answered by the designer, I think we can assume the rules are as complete as they are going to get.

As for "If it's easier it's illegal", that mostly refers to some other creative readings of the rules I've seen here lately, like if you can excorsize one corner ghost, you can choose which one you take. So always combine a 1 resistance and a 4 resistance, and presto, never be bothered by tormentors again. It isn't logical, or within the spirit of the rules, it's just people trying to read something that simply isn't there.

In answer to your questions, I don't think you can voluntarily dump Tao tokens, whether during an exorcism or not. It's not in the rules literally, neither does it feel in the spirit of the game. Managing tao is an extra part of the strategy of this game to me. Sure, sometimes it sucks, but that's Ghost Stories for you...
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4tran wrote:
If you're going to argue about "theme", explain to me why a village would have only 4 bowls of sticky rice? shake

Hey, it's hungry work fighting ghosts!!!

... and those bowls are special bowls blessed by Lam Ching Ying!

4tran wrote:
The typical English pronunciation of dao ~ dow sounds more like the 3rd tone, which corresponds to (among other things) falling/tipping over, than to the correct 4th tone.

Well I don't know about your games of Ghost Stories, but in mine the monks are always falling over!! Incompetence or slapstick?
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4tran wrote:
"if it makes the game easier, it's illegal".

Actually I think dumping tao would make the game harder rather than easier ... when the tokens are already in play, they can be accessed by any monk standing on the right square ... but if you were to dump them, they'd be out of the game and you'd have to slowly earn them back again.

But of course there's the standard disclaimer ... if you want to play using whatever home rules you like, go right ahead, let us know how it turns out. cool
 
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4tran A
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Boscrossos wrote:
Actually, the "It's not mentioned, so it doesn't work" makes sense. The rules outline how a game works, so if the rules don't discuss something, it's reasonable to assume that it isn't in the game, no matter how reasonable it seems to have it.

Most manuals are a combination of whitelists and blacklists, but it's nearly impossible to come up with every possible thing a player could try/want to do. The manual doesn't specifically allow for bathroom breaks, but common sense tells us that bathroom breaks are legal (vs Wu Feng will find his urn if you use the restroom!).

Boscrossos wrote:
With the older versions of the rules, when there were still quite a few holes, it didn't seem unlikely that something was missed, but now we have updated rules, two expansions, and a couple of FAQs answered by the designer, I think we can assume the rules are as complete as they are going to get.

Ya, I guess.

Boscrossos wrote:
As for "If it's easier it's illegal", that mostly refers to some other creative readings of the rules I've seen here lately, like if you can excorsize one corner ghost, you can choose which one you take. So always combine a 1 resistance and a 4 resistance, and presto, never be bothered by tormentors again. It isn't logical, or within the spirit of the rules, it's just people trying to read something that simply isn't there.

laugh

Rainbow Snake wrote:
Incompetence or slapstick?

Probably both

Rainbow Snake wrote:
Actually I think dumping tao would make the game harder rather than easier ... when the tokens are already in play, they can be accessed by any monk standing on the right square ... but if you were to dump them, they'd be out of the game and you'd have to slowly earn them back again.

One would think so, but there are at least 2 instances where it is advantageous to dump tokens.
1) Your friends need to whack several weak, red ghosts, but you have all the red tokens. You dump a token to allow the circle of prayer to pick it up. Alternatively, we could allow us giving the villager our token (as far as theme goes, there's nothing wrong giving the monks an offering).
2) The herbalist shop gave me 2 yellow tokens a couple turns ago. Right now, the yellow priest (bottomless pockets) on the other side of the map desperately needs yellow tokens. Due to distance, there's no way for me to get over there in time to be useful. My not being able to dump my useless tokens made circumstances pretty ugly.
 
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4tran wrote:
"Tao" came from the antiquated Wade Giles romanization system (wiki it). It's why Beijing is sometimes referred to as Peking, and Mao Zedong is sometimes bastardized into Mao Tse-tung. It does not resemble any dialect of Chinese that I'm aware of.

Wade-Giles for Beijing is "Peiching" I believe. "Peking" isn't based on Mandarin.
 
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