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Subject: Retreat and Starbases rss

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Andrew Sims
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According to the rules, I can have a ship type retreat instead of attacking. Since starbases are a ship type, can I have them retreat?

I'd assume they're not supposed to, what with them not having drives, but the rulebook doesn't say, and I can't see anything in the FAQ. The rulebook says that normal Wormhole movement rules must be followed, though that seems to be referring to where you can go.
 
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Lutz
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No, starbases can't move. Sorry.

BOb
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Kris Ardianto
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The rules said, Starbases cannot move (so how could they retreat?)zombie
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Andrew Sims
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It depends on how you're reading the rules. The rules state that starbases have no drives, and cannot move; that's under the Move action, though; so it's quite clear that you can't use it to Move your starbases.

The rules for combat talk about retreating, and not moving, though.

(For what it's worth, I agree completely that they shouldn't be allowed to move, but I'm just try to anticipate the local rules lawyer before he picks up on that little bit of wordplay.)
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Lutz
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From the rules:

Starbases are immobile.

Starbases are not allowed to have a Drive.

Starbases are not allowed to have Drives and therefore cannot move.

When you decide to retreat your Ships, move them to the edge of a neighboring hex to show that they are retreating.

---

So, if starbases are immobile, not allowed a drive, therefore can't move and retreating is moving a ship to the edge of the hex... it's pretty clear that a ship that can't move can't move to the edge of the hex, hence can't retreat.

BOb
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Andrew Sims
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That's exactly what I need - thank you!
 
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Kris Ardianto
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pilotbob wrote:
From the rules:

Starbases are immobile.

Starbases are not allowed to have a Drive.

Starbases are not allowed to have Drives and therefore cannot move.

When you decide to retreat your Ships, move them to the edge of a neighboring hex to show that they are retreating.

---

So, if starbases are immobile, not allowed a drive, therefore can't move and retreating is moving a ship to the edge of the hex... it's pretty clear that a ship that can't move can't move to the edge of the hex, hence can't retreat.

BOb


Yup, pretty clear, in order to retreat you need to move. I can't think how to retreat without moving.
 
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Andrew Sims
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It's rules-lawyering at its finest.

There's an action called move, and it's established that starbases cannot move, so you can't do anything with them in a move action.

In combat, it's called a retreat, and there's nothing that says starbases cannot retreat - because the rulebook uses the word retreat and not move, it's clearly (and this is the rules lawyering part) something different, and should be treated differently.

On the other hand, "Starbases are immobile" is pretty darned unambiguous.
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Kris Ardianto
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andrewsi wrote:
It's rules-lawyering at its finest.

There's an action called move, and it's established that starbases cannot move, so you can't do anything with them in a move action.

In combat, it's called a retreat, and there's nothing that says starbases cannot retreat - because the rulebook uses the word retreat and not move, it's clearly (and this is the rules lawyering part) something different, and should be treated differently.

On the other hand, "Starbases are immobile" is pretty darned unambiguous.

Well yes if you took it like that
Just take the two definitions on the rules are the same one disregarding the context.
The concept is quite thematic in my opinion, starbases are kind of space stations (base) which built to strengthen the defense. Now, since it cannot move (even you consider this as an action or not) and cannot be equipped with drives, so it's very logical that they cannot retreat. Well maybe the crews can flee with escape pods or else, but the structure cannot. If they can retreat (assume they have drives, why would they cannot move during the action phase?)
Just my opinion.
 
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Kelvin Lau
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perhaps in the 10th expansion red bull gives starbases wings so that they could flee
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M. Li
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andrewsi wrote:
I'm just try to anticipate the local rules lawyer before he picks up on that little bit of wordplay.)


I say get rid of this player if he tries to argue cool
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charlie riegle
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Note to all: Please use common sense.
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Trevor Schadt
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andrewsi wrote:
There's an action called move, and it's established that starbases cannot move, so you can't do anything with them in a move action.

In combat, it's called a retreat, and there's nothing that says starbases cannot retreat - because the rulebook uses the word retreat and not move, it's clearly (and this is the rules lawyering part) something different, and should be treated differently.
Actually, it does use the word move. The rulebook says (emphasis mine) that "normal Wormhole movement rules must be followed. The "normal Wormhole movement rules" state that starbases cannot move. Ergo, they cannot retreat.
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