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Subject: How does "strength" work? rss

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Ting Yue
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I am a little confused by "Strength":

1.When the corperation activates (flip back) an ICE when runner makes an run, if the runner CANNOT raise the strength to equal as ICE, does the run immediately end up failing?

2.Does the runner have to raise the strength to equal as ICE to break any subroutine of that ICE?

3.When encountering an ICE, the runner can only choose ONE icebreaker to calulate the strength, or can choose several breakers to add their strength points?

4.If the runner CANNOT raise the strength to equal as ICE, does any text effect (not subroutine) still resolve?

5.If there is one face-up ICE and the runner CANNOT raise the strength to equal as ICE, does the runner still can make a run (and will fail) or cannot even choose this action?
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Jeremy Owens
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Ted Yue wrote:
I am a little confused by "Strength":

1.When the corperation activates (flip back) an ICE when runner makes an run, if the runner CANNOT raise the strength to equal as ICE, does the run immediately end up failing?

2.Does the runner have to raise the strength to equal as ICE to break any subroutine of that ICE?

3.When encountering an ICE, the runner can only choose ONE icebreaker to calulate the strength, or can choose several breakers to add their strength points?

4.If the runner CANNOT raise the strength to equal as ICE, does any text effect (not subroutine) still resolve?

5.If there is one face-up ICE and the runner CANNOT raise the strength to equal as ICE, does the runner still can make a run (and will fail) or cannot even choose this action?


(my 6th sense says I will be beaten to the punch while typing, but here goes.)

1. No. (well, not necessarily) This just means that the subroutines on that piece of ice will go off. You can potentially make a run on a server with ice without any icebreakers and just take the effects as is. However, if one of those subroutines is "End the Run" then yes, the run ends.

2. This is correct. In fact, if the icebreaker has a strength rating, it has to be raised to or above the strength of the ice to interact with the ice at all. (See Wyrm)

3.Icebreakers do not combine. You have to raise the strength of the icebreaker to match the ice (or higher) and then use the break subroutine command on that icebreaker. Other programs can affect the strength of the ice for the icebreaker to match (Like Virus or Wyrm) but the actual breaking is done by one breaker only.

4. I don't completely understand this question. If you encounter the ice and can't break the subroutines, then they go off. Other text? Are you referring to Matrix Analyzer or Data Raven? The non-subroutine text instructions on those cards go off no matter what. They are not subroutines and thus cannot be broken.

5. If the ice does not have an "End the Run" subroutine, it does not stop a run. Say the runner makes a run on a server with one piece of ice that says "Do 3 Net Damage". If the runner can't break that subroutine, the runner will receive 3 Net Damage. However, they can still finish the run and get into the server to access the agenda/asset/upgrade/etc.

An overall observation. Strength is not an attribute of the runner, but instead of a program. You don't have a strength, your program does. As for ice, when you run a server, the ice will go off because it's programmed to. The only ways to stop submitting yourself to the subroutines of each ice are to a) jack out of the run before encountering the ice or b) use an icebreaking program to disrupt the subroutines on the ice by hacking it. To disrupt ice, you need to have a matching type icebreaker. The icebreaker's strength must be equal or higher to the strength of the ice. Then you can use the break command on the icebreaker to break the subroutine(s).

I recommend re-reading the rulebook. I think it makes it all pretty clear.
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David Boeren
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Each subroutine must be broken separately. If the Runner does not break a subroutine, then he will suffer its effects. Sometimes that ends the run, sometimes it trashes a program or does damage or whatever else. A good runner will pick and choose which subroutines are worth breaking and which he would rather just suffer the effects of to save bits or because he currently won't be hurt badly by them.
 
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Piotr Jekel
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Ted Yue wrote:
I am a little confused by "Strength":

1.When the corperation activates (flip back) an ICE when runner makes an run, if the runner CANNOT raise the strength to equal as ICE, does the run immediately end up failing?

2.Does the runner have to raise the strength to equal as ICE to break any subroutine of that ICE?

3.When encountering an ICE, the runner can only choose ONE icebreaker to calulate the strength, or can choose several breakers to add their strength points?

4.If the runner CANNOT raise the strength to equal as ICE, does any text effect (not subroutine) still resolve?

5.If there is one face-up ICE and the runner CANNOT raise the strength to equal as ICE, does the runner still can make a run (and will fail) or cannot even choose this action?


1. The runner needs an icebreaker with a strength equal or higher than the strength of an ice to interact with that ice. If he does not have a strong-enough icebreaker and a rezzed ice is encountered, the runner must suffer all the consequences -- the subroutines trigger.

2. Correct.

3. Each icebreaker that has a strength equal or higher than the strength of an ice can interact with that ice. So if you have two icebreakers with the strength of 3 and encounter a rezzed ice with a strengh of 3, you can trigger the abilities on both of these icebreakers, whichever you need / are cheeper / etc.

4. All unbroken subroutines always trigger.

5. If the runner continues the run and does not jack-out, he encounters the ice. If he does not have a valid icebreaker, he just suffers the consequences. If there are no End of Run subroutines, the run continues and the runner approaches the next ice / agenda.
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darksurtur
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Also, remember that a runner picks the order in which subroutines go off. Thus, the runner can pick an end the run subroutine first if they find themselves outgunned or unprepared.
 
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Big Head Zach
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darksurtur wrote:
Also, remember that a runner picks the order in which subroutines go off. Thus, the runner can pick an end the run subroutine first if they find themselves outgunned or unprepared.


Actually, they can't:

Android: Netrunner rulebook, page 18 wrote:
Encountering Ice
When the Runner encounters a piece of ice, he has the
opportunity to break any subroutines on that piece of ice. After
the Runner finishes breaking any subroutines that he wishes
to break, each unbroken subroutine on that ice triggers in the
order as listed on the card. If a subroutine ends the run, then
the run ends immediately and no further subroutines on that
piece of ice trigger.
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darksurtur
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bhz1 wrote:
darksurtur wrote:
Also, remember that a runner picks the order in which subroutines go off. Thus, the runner can pick an end the run subroutine first if they find themselves outgunned or unprepared.


Actually, they can't:

Android: Netrunner rulebook, page 18 wrote:
Encountering Ice
When the Runner encounters a piece of ice, he has the
opportunity to break any subroutines on that piece of ice. After
the Runner finishes breaking any subroutines that he wishes
to break, each unbroken subroutine on that ice triggers in the
order as listed on the card. If a subroutine ends the run, then
the run ends immediately and no further subroutines on that
piece of ice trigger.


Oops, my mistake. I don't know why I thought that ...
 
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Big Head Zach
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darksurtur wrote:
bhz1 wrote:
darksurtur wrote:
Also, remember that a runner picks the order in which subroutines go off. Thus, the runner can pick an end the run subroutine first if they find themselves outgunned or unprepared.


Actually, they can't:

Android: Netrunner rulebook, page 18 wrote:
Encountering Ice
When the Runner encounters a piece of ice, he has the
opportunity to break any subroutines on that piece of ice. After
the Runner finishes breaking any subroutines that he wishes
to break, each unbroken subroutine on that ice triggers in the
order as listed on the card. If a subroutine ends the run, then
the run ends immediately and no further subroutines on that
piece of ice trigger.


Oops, my mistake. I don't know why I thought that ...


Hope? devil
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Ting Yue
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hobb3 wrote:
Ted Yue wrote:
I am a little confused by "Strength":

1.When the corperation activates (flip back) an ICE when runner makes an run, if the runner CANNOT raise the strength to equal as ICE, does the run immediately end up failing?

2.Does the runner have to raise the strength to equal as ICE to break any subroutine of that ICE?

3.When encountering an ICE, the runner can only choose ONE icebreaker to calulate the strength, or can choose several breakers to add their strength points?

4.If the runner CANNOT raise the strength to equal as ICE, does any text effect (not subroutine) still resolve?

5.If there is one face-up ICE and the runner CANNOT raise the strength to equal as ICE, does the runner still can make a run (and will fail) or cannot even choose this action?


1. The runner needs an icebreaker with a strength equal or higher than the strength of an ice to interact with that ice. If he does not have a strong-enough icebreaker and a rezzed ice is encountered, the runner must suffer all the consequences -- the subroutines trigger.

2. Correct.

3. Each icebreaker that has a strength equal or higher than the strength of an ice can interact with that ice. So if you have two icebreakers with the strength of 3 and encounter a rezzed ice with a strengh of 3, you can trigger the abilities on both of these icebreakers, whichever you need / are cheeper / etc.

4. All unbroken subroutines always trigger.

5. If the runner continues the run and does not jack-out, he encounters the ice. If he does not have a valid icebreaker, he just suffers the consequences. If there are no End of Run subroutines, the run continues and the runner approaches the next ice / agenda.


Thanks very much!
Just a small confirm: so if an ICE have no "End the run" text/subroutine, the runner can "pass" it if he choose to suffer all the effects (damage,trace...)? Even if he has NO icebreaker at all and strength is 0?
 
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Aaron Morgan
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Ted Yue wrote:

Just a small confirm: so if an ICE have no "End the run" text/subroutine, the runner can "pass" it if he choose to suffer all the effects (damage,trace...)? Even if he has NO icebreaker at all and strength is 0?


Correct.
 
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Jeremy Owens
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Ted Yue wrote:

Thanks very much!
Just a small confirm: so if an ICE have no "End the run" text/subroutine, the runner can "pass" it if he choose to suffer all the effects (damage,trace...)? Even if he has NO icebreaker at all and strength is 0?


Yup.

One note though: Again, The runner does not have any strength. The icebreakers each have individual strengths. When an icebreaker has an increase strength command, it is only increasing its individual strength.
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B C Z
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see also: "+1 Strength" and "+1 Strength for the remainder of the run"
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Kevin Shillinglaw
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EitherOrlok wrote:
Ted Yue wrote:

Just a small confirm: so if an ICE have no "End the run" text/subroutine, the runner can "pass" it if he choose to suffer all the effects (damage,trace...)? Even if he has NO icebreaker at all and strength is 0?


Correct.


I had this same question pop into my head, so I'm glad I found this thread.
 
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Mark Mitchell
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Deathstroke wrote:
EitherOrlok wrote:
Ted Yue wrote:

Just a small confirm: so if an ICE have no "End the run" text/subroutine, the runner can "pass" it if he choose to suffer all the effects (damage,trace...)? Even if he has NO icebreaker at all and strength is 0?


Correct.


I had this same question pop into my head, so I'm glad I found this thread.


I see another thread confirming that the rule book could have been clearer..... ....swoosh... I'm outta here...
 
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