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Subject: Rule book or combat breakdown? rss

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Jason Barchak
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Could some lucky bastard who went to gencon and picked this game up throw me a bone and post the rule book? I am dieing with curiosity because this game looks like the mutts nuts. If not could you at least give me a breakdown of how combat works. Thanks in advance.
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Jason Preder
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Can't post the rulebook, but I can give you a rundown of some things, like combat.

Just a FYI, the game isn't focused on combat, it's just another phase of the round, so it doesn't manifest itself as some sort of strategic combat game. This game is more about managing your resources and engaging in lies and deceit amongst your fellow players to earn the most gold.

Gold is gained by trading/selling assets (gladiators, slaves, weapons), engaging in Intrigues (basically screwing people out of money), and betting on the victor in the Arena phase. The arena phase can also be influenced by Intrigue cards on the fly for maximum treachery.

Combat is fairly simple. You have 3 types of dice. Initiative (move), Attack, and Defense. The number of dice you have are shown on your Gladiator or Slave card that are in the Arena.

First you roll your initiative dice. Whomever wins the roll (highest value) will choose who goes first. Then, your movement spaces is determined by how many Initiative/Move dice you have left.

On an attack, you roll attack dice, and the defender rolls his defense dice. You match them up, highest to lowest and do damage for every Attack die that is greater than his defense die (and above 2). The defender removed dice from his dice pool (any of the 3) and then takes his turn. Rinse and repeat. Combat ends with one Gladiator losing all his dice. You have to leave 1 dice of each type in your dice pools when taking damage, so the final blow will determine if you Yield (2 dice left), Wound (1 dice left), decapitated (no dice left, and you lose your gladiator, obviously.)

Other players bet on these 3 outcomes and collect the spoils after the battle. Also, if the Gladiator yields or is wounded, the Host of the event (determined in the Market phase), can decide the fate of the Gladiator, and have him killed anyway. This has particular strategic importance, as repeat gladiators gain Fame, and having a yielding gladiator with Fame get a thumbs down will cause the Host to lose Influence, the ultimate Victory condition in the game.

Hope that helps you understand what the game is a bit more. Anyone who played a demo that I've heard of immediately purchased a copy at Gen Con, including myself. What a fantastic game.
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Joe Moles
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Beat me to it, and your explanation is better than mineblush
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Mike Brewington
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Nice job Jason, just one nit

MilkFromACow wrote:
... Attack die that is greater than his defense die (and above 2)...


The above 2 only applies for ATK dice rolled in excess of DEF dice, so a 2 ATK will cause a wound on a 1 DEF.
 
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Galen Ciscell
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Check out my game, Atlantis Rising! :)
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Brewmiester2020 wrote:

Nice job Jason, just one nit

MilkFromACow wrote:
... Attack die that is greater than his defense die (and above 2)...


The above 2 only applies for ATK dice rolled in excess of DEF dice, so a 2 ATK will cause a wound on a 1 DEF.

I'm still confused as to what this means...?
 
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Jason Preder
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gciscell wrote:
Brewmiester2020 wrote:

Nice job Jason, just one nit

MilkFromACow wrote:
... Attack die that is greater than his defense die (and above 2)...


The above 2 only applies for ATK dice rolled in excess of DEF dice, so a 2 ATK will cause a wound on a 1 DEF.

I'm still confused as to what this means...?


LOL..sorry...it's kind of confusing to explain without a picture...


Attack Dice: 6 5 3 4 2
Defense Dice 6 6 2

This scored 2 hits I believe:

Attack dice 6 and 5 are blocked. (cant remeber if tie goes to attacker or defender, in this case, defender)
Attack dice 3 and 4 are hits
Attack die 2 would normally be a hit, but an unblocked Attack die needs to be at least a 3 to score the 3rd hit.

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Jason Barchak
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Damn decent of you fellas. What about the plots or schemes, can you kind gentleman give me some examples of those cards and how they are played?
 
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Jason Preder
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polishhammer wrote:
Damn decent of you fellas. What about the plots or schemes, can you kind gentleman give me some examples of those cards and how they are played?


I haven't got to play the game myself yet, only the demo at Gen Con..First play should be tonight, but........

The Intrigue cards are as such:

Gain 10gold(or whatever the currency is) if you have 8 Influence.

No one else knows what your card actually says, so you might only have 5 Influence and require 3 more to gain the gold, so you say "I will offer 3 gold to anyone whom gives me 3 Influence."

Then, you will have table talk, and someone may offer you 3 Influence for only 2 gold..or they may tell you to go screw yourself, and then you're out of luck and need to come up with a new deal.

Once all agreements have been made, you can play your card, collect your gold and decide whether or not you want to make good on your offer in the first place. It's pretty damn treacherous, since you don't have to keep your word on pretty much anything.

Hope that helps with how the cards work. Some are for gold, some will affect gladiators, and some other effects as well.

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David Jackman
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MilkFromACow wrote:


LOL..sorry...it's kind of confusing to explain without a picture...


Attack Dice: 6 5 3 4 2
Defense Dice 6 6 2

This scored 2 hits I believe:

Attack dice 6 and 5 are blocked. (cant remeber if tie goes to attacker or defender, in this case, defender)
Attack dice 3 and 4 are hits
Attack die 2 would normally be a hit, but an unblocked Attack die needs to be at least a 3 to score the 3rd hit.



This is exactly correct.
 
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Morten Friis
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MilkFromACow wrote:

Attack Dice: 6 5 3 4 2
Defense Dice 6 6 2

This scored 2 hits I believe:

Attack dice 6 and 5 are blocked. (cant remeber if tie goes to attacker or defender, in this case, defender)
Attack dice 3 and 4 are hits
Attack die 2 would normally be a hit, but an unblocked Attack die needs to be at least a 3 to score the 3rd hit.
Sorry, this is probably just me being an ass, but I think your example would have been better if you hadn't included the 2 in the defensive dice roll. In your example, the attacking 2 would not be unblocked - it would be blocked by the defensive 2 (it's not wasted trying to defend the 3 or 4). The result is obviously still correct either way, it just doesn't illustrate the mechanic very well.

And yes, I know this is probably unnecessary to point out, but I just can't help myself. Sorry.


Damn - it seems I was completely wrong about this. Apparently, the dice are paired in order from highest to lowest, so the 2 is actually wasted trying to defend the 4. Once again sorry...
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Jonathan Er
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MilkFromACow wrote:
polishhammer wrote:
Damn decent of you fellas. What about the plots or schemes, can you kind gentleman give me some examples of those cards and how they are played?


I haven't got to play the game myself yet, only the demo at Gen Con..First play should be tonight, but........

The Intrigue cards are as such:

Gain 10gold(or whatever the currency is) if you have 8 Influence.

No one else knows what your card actually says, so you might only have 5 Influence and require 3 more to gain the gold, so you say "I will offer 3 gold to anyone whom gives me 3 Influence."

Then, you will have table talk, and someone may offer you 3 Influence for only 2 gold..or they may tell you to go screw yourself, and then you're out of luck and need to come up with a new deal.

Once all agreements have been made, you can play your card, collect your gold and decide whether or not you want to make good on your offer in the first place. It's pretty damn treacherous, since you don't have to keep your word on pretty much anything.

Hope that helps with how the cards work. Some are for gold, some will affect gladiators, and some other effects as well.




hi Jason,

thanks for your quick runthrough of the game and one of the card examples

i'm also one of those who are eagerly wanting to find out more about the game


would you be able to advise if most of the fun of the game comes from making those "empty" promises on the intrigue cards ? like your example above where someone promised gold for influence but backstabbed the giver by leaving him with nothing at all ?

because i have 2 different types of gaming groups where one would flourish in such a scenario of treachery but the other would prefer a game where negotiation goes through and we carry on with our plans. i think turning around and giving them squat is not going to make them like the game or want to play again




thanks !


Jonathan
 
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Jason Preder
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Jion wrote:
MilkFromACow wrote:
polishhammer wrote:
Damn decent of you fellas. What about the plots or schemes, can you kind gentleman give me some examples of those cards and how they are played?


I haven't got to play the game myself yet, only the demo at Gen Con..First play should be tonight, but........

The Intrigue cards are as such:

Gain 10gold(or whatever the currency is) if you have 8 Influence.

No one else knows what your card actually says, so you might only have 5 Influence and require 3 more to gain the gold, so you say "I will offer 3 gold to anyone whom gives me 3 Influence."

Then, you will have table talk, and someone may offer you 3 Influence for only 2 gold..or they may tell you to go screw yourself, and then you're out of luck and need to come up with a new deal.

Once all agreements have been made, you can play your card, collect your gold and decide whether or not you want to make good on your offer in I,the first place. It's pretty damn treacherous, since you don't have to keep your word on pretty much anything.

Hope that helps with how the cards work. Some are for gold, some will affect gladiators, and some other effects as well.




hi Jason,

thanks for your quick runthrough of the game and one of the card examples

i'm also one of those who are eagerly wanting to find out more about the game


would you be able to advise if most of the fun of the game comes from making those "empty" promises on the intrigue cards ? like your example above where someone promised gold for influence but backstabbed the giver by leaving him with nothing at all ?

because i have 2 different types of gaming groups where one would flourish in such a scenario of treachery but the other would prefer a game where negotiation goes through and we carry on with our plans. i think turning around and giving them squat is not going to make them like the game or want to play again




thanks !


Jonathan


Like I said, I only played the demo, but I really dont see too many people completely retracting their deals. Some cards can injure another gladiator out of turn, simulating a thrown fight and really screwing up a bet on a strong gladiator in your favor. I see this sort of backstabbing more than completely going back on your offers during the intrigue phase. If all you did was lie, I'm not sure you'd ever make a deal work.
Hopefully I'll get a real full game in tomorrow and I can report back more.
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Joe Moles
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The fun I think come a lot for the table talk, negotiating favors, buying/selling, and general bribery.

For example there are card with an influence cost so high you have to get another house to help you. This could be to steal gold or reduce some else's influence. Also there are cards that let you force one house to change the combatant in the arena to one of your choice after bets are placed. So with this you could force someone to pull Spartacus out and put in one of their slaves. Not only does the monkey with that players plans but it may really screw with some of the bets.
 
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Thomas Mink

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I had the Intrique card that would prevent House of Glaber from winning. I made the other remaining houses pay me gold to play the card I was holding for most of the game.

Despite the simple combat system, the matches are exciting. Our table sounded like a hot craps table.



 
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Steve W
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Jion wrote:
because i have 2 different types of gaming groups where one would flourish in such a scenario of treachery but the other would prefer a game where negotiation goes through and we carry on with our plans. i think turning around and giving them squat is not going to make them like the game or want to play again


I feel like you could easily change the rules so that agreements are binding and keep the feel of the game. You do need to keep the messing with other players to keep the feel of the game, but I think it'd still work fine to have binding agreements to screw other players over!

We've also been playing that you can show cards or not (some times players will demand you show them the card before agreeing to helping you), since there doesn't seem to be any rule in the game saying that you're required to agree to a secret card text.
 
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Jason Preder
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MrThud wrote:
Jion wrote:
because i have 2 different types of gaming groups where one would flourish in such a scenario of treachery but the other would prefer a game where negotiation goes through and we carry on with our plans. i think turning around and giving them squat is not going to make them like the game or want to play again


I feel like you could easily change the rules so that agreements are binding and keep the feel of the game. You do need to keep the messing with other players to keep the feel of the game, but I think it'd still work fine to have binding agreements to screw other players over!

We've also been playing that you can show cards or not (some times players will demand you show them the card before agreeing to helping you), since there doesn't seem to be any rule in the game saying that you're required to agree to a secret card text.


There is nothing that says you are required to agree, but there is rules that state you are not required to show the card text as well.

I had a chance to play a full game this weekend, and I can pretty much say that "going back on you deals" is pretty much a non issue. Most of the cards are fairly transparent in their effect, and most of the time we also ended up throwing down the card and just applying the scheme as is. There were a few scenarios where someone suggested that foiling their scheme would have dire effects, but that still didn't apply to the scheme in play. There are a couple of really nasty schemes that allow you to swap gladiators and reduce/increase Influece (VPs), so it's pretty apparent when someone plays these as they have to muster extreme amounts of influence, and it's usually to prevent someone from winning, so you probably don't need to scheme in secret then as well.

Anyhow, we played a 4 player game (beginner - starting at 7 Influence) and we all enjoyed it very much. There was enough interaction to not grow bored in between turns and watching combat is fairly interesting as well, as players not directly involved in combat seem almost like arena spectators as they offer input on movement and die wound selection.

I reallly can't wait to see what they have in store for this game in an expansion, as I'm sure I'd be the first to sign up for it.
 
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Steve W
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MilkFromACow wrote:
There is nothing that says you are required to agree, but there is rules that state you are not required to show the card text as well.


Oh, I agree that there's nothing saying that you have to show the card. I'm just saying that in my interpretation a player could demand to be shown the card text before agreeing to any deal if they're worried about screwage.


Quote:
Anyhow, we played a 4 player game (beginner - starting at 7 Influence) and we all enjoyed it very much. There was enough interaction to not grow bored in between turns and watching combat is fairly interesting as well, as players not directly involved in combat seem almost like arena spectators as they offer input on movement and die wound selection.


My only full game has been the quick/Inf7. I wonder how much the game would change with the long game where you'd realistically need two players helping you to do any schemes in the early game. Feels like it might make for some interesting dynamics!
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