Recommend
7 
 Thumb up
 Hide
15 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » Trades

Subject: Advocating for more Trade Proposals instead of "Trade Geekmails" rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
David F
United States
Emeryville
California
flag msg tools
Luck in games, in measured doses, is the catalyst which enables shocking game-changers that you'll remember and talk about forever.
badge
Let the Lord of Chaos rule.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I always read about how people advise new/inexperienced traders to contact other users through geekmail first before proposing a trade, instead of just using the BGG Trade System to generate the proposal without an introduction.

This is unnecessary and inefficient. The Trade Proposal System is excellent, giving me links to the user's For Trade List (the very useful "Counter-Trade" link, which is useless if you use geekmail to set up the trade), It also logs all offers I've received, whether accepted or declined, which provides great reference for the future.

The reason people don't like the Trade Proposal system, it appears, is because users tend to send offers with just the offered games in there, and no text in the Comments field about edition, completeness, condition etc. Also, offerers are afraid that multiple people accept offers for the same game. Well, 1) this is rare -- it's hard enough to pull off ANY trade, 2) don't have offers floating with the same game on your side, 3) and most importantly, say in the Comment field that you have another offer on this game floating out there, and ask offerree not to accept, but to reply

These are all people problems, and not a problem of the excellent Trade Proposal System.

Hence, I suggest: make your offers through the system, but don't leave the Comment field blank. Put your 'geekmail speech' in the Comment field. It saves you (the offerer) time, and saves me (the offeree) a couple of clicks, plus gives me something concrete to work with. The trade proposal template is there and works great for a reason; don't ignore it.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Destiny's got her hand way, way up in their puppets! It's an unpleasant tingling! The deepest of wriggles!
United States
Wichita
Kansas
flag msg tools
But my greatest power is this: When Destiny speaks, she speaks to me. She says hi, by the way.
badge
Oh! And I've been killing the bees!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Except that people usually do not list important information (condition, edition, preferred shipping method, etc.) that I need to know before even making an offer. And if the offer is accepted before I discover something that would have nixed the trade, canceling is at best inconvenient and at worst a negative feedback rating in the making.
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael J
United States
Folsom
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
The reason people don't like the Trade Proposal system, it appears, is because users tend to send offers with just the offered games in there, and no text in the Comments field about edition, completeness, condition etc.


The reason I don't like the Trade Proposal system is because people never respond, and then I'm stuck with the trade for 3 days before I can offer it to someone else. 3 out of 4 trade offers I make don't get responded to in a timely fashion. I've had far better luck with GeekMail. Your mileage may vary.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Lacombe
Louisiana
msg tools
badge
Suddenly a shot rang out! A door slammed. The maid screamed. Suddenly a pirate ship appeared on the horizon! While millions of people were starving, the king lived in luxury. Meanwhile, on a small farm in Kansas, a boy was growing up.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mjacobsca wrote:
Quote:
The reason people don't like the Trade Proposal system, it appears, is because users tend to send offers with just the offered games in there, and no text in the Comments field about edition, completeness, condition etc.


The reason I don't like the Trade Proposal system is because people never respond, and then I'm stuck with the trade for 3 days before I can offer it to someone else. 3 out of 4 trade offers I make don't get responded to in a timely fashion. I've had far better luck with GeekMail. Your mileage may vary.


Quite. If someone doesn't respond to a Geekmailed request, you can just ignore them and move on to the next offer. You want to set A large enough "expiration" window for formal trade proposals to make sure the person sees it, but once they've logged in a few times and haven't done anything about it, there's nothing you can do except wait for your generous trade window to run out.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David F
United States
Emeryville
California
flag msg tools
Luck in games, in measured doses, is the catalyst which enables shocking game-changers that you'll remember and talk about forever.
badge
Let the Lord of Chaos rule.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If that worried, set the trade window to 1 day. It doesn't matter if it expires before the other person logs in. And really, it's hard enough to get any trade offer accepted, let alone 2 in short order.

Your Trade Proposal comment field wasn't just blank or less detailed than your geekmail would have been, right?

I'm just saying offerees shouldn't thumb their nose up at receiving trade offers with well-written and complete messages instead of a geekmail, just because of some weird notion that people think it's rude to receive the proposal before the geekmail.

Evidently, this seems to be happening since the offerers say geekmails are more likely to get a response than well-worded Trade Proposals.

Note: this doesn't get into the offerer's preferences. This is after the offerer has decided to use Trade Proposal instead of geekmail.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls

Lacombe
Louisiana
msg tools
badge
Suddenly a shot rang out! A door slammed. The maid screamed. Suddenly a pirate ship appeared on the horizon! While millions of people were starving, the king lived in luxury. Meanwhile, on a small farm in Kansas, a boy was growing up.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I suspect either method is as likely to be met with a response, and that the prevailing opinion that GMs get a better response rate is confirmation bias.

This would seem to support your endeavor here, except that I don't think that a well worded, well framed trade proposal is apt to be any more effective.

I've seen the reports you mention of GMs being more effective, as well as the general recommendations in that direction, but I haven't seen the corresponding evidence (anecdotal / biased or not) that people are getting noses thumbed at them for making trade offers through the trade system instead of GMs.

The fact of the matter is that the trade system / community is simply a little broken. People don't update lists, don't respond, use the system for purposes other than arranging trades by post, and so on. I like and support your cause, but I don't think it will be effective or solve any existing problems.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill the Pill
United States
Oneonta
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
selwyth wrote:
If that worried, set the trade window to 1 day. It doesn't matter if it expires before the other person logs in. And really, it's hard enough to get any trade offer accepted, let alone 2 in short order.

I was under the impression 3 days is not just the default, but the minimum number of days for a trade proposal. Am I wrong?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick C.
United States
Milford
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
Because I served, I will resist
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When I first started trading I would have agreed with the OP. Now I understand why so many want the GM sent first.

A lot of it is quite simple - trade lists do not necessarily reflect one's immediate interest. One week you might have a thing for Feld games, the next anything worker placement. I see it all the time in others and in myself.

The trade proposal system is a detached robotic answer to a flawed human interaction. Wanting people to use the system as is is asking them to be robotic. People aren't going to change. The trade proposal system is what needs to change to reflect the realities of two humans considering a trade.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David F
United States
Emeryville
California
flag msg tools
Luck in games, in measured doses, is the catalyst which enables shocking game-changers that you'll remember and talk about forever.
badge
Let the Lord of Chaos rule.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I could set it to 1 day before, but haven't tried it recently.

Trade Expirations are actually great, since they can also serve as a reminder to the recipient. I sometimes forget about proposals, then remember to reply (with guilt) after seeing the expiration geekmail.

Patrick, we're not talking about robots here... trade lists are each person's own business/preference. Again, it's a people problem.

My point is: if you have everything in order and are willing to do so, send a well-worded trade proposal to open the conversation. Don't decide to send a geekmail instead because you think that has a higher chance of success. It shouldn't.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken B.
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There is too much to hash out with just the Proposal system. Usually, you want to trade, you send me a feeler Geekmail (and vice-versa, I follow my own rules as well, of course.) Just how it is.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J.L. Robert
United States
Sherman Oaks
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Follow me for wargames!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
selwyth wrote:
I'm just saying offerees shouldn't thumb their nose up at receiving trade offers with well-written and complete messages instead of a geekmail, just because of some weird notion that people think it's rude to receive the proposal before the geekmail.


I don't thumb my nose at a trade offer with well-written and complete messages.

I just don't get any like that. The trade offers I tend to get unsolicited are lowball offers that I shouldn't even dignify with a response. Yet I do.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Digren K
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I got a reasonable trade request recently, for a medium game + expansion + a smaller game in exchange for a big-box game I have for trade.

The problem was that I already own the expansion. It's not on my trade list. Also shipping made the deal prohibitive, but I would be in the area where that person lived this fall, and I would be able to do a no-ship trade. So I sent a geekmail noting all of this. Alas, then the trade expired before I had time to decline it, while waiting for a geekmail response (like one suggesting an alternative).

Then the person sent the exact same trade request in a few weeks later. (?) So I sent another geekmail saying that it still was good but didn't quite work, and then declined it with the same info in the comments.

From my standpoint, in this story geekmails = human interaction, while trade requests = nameless machine matchings. They just don't work most of the time.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Foster
United States
Kirkland
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have had great success with Geekmailing a player first instead of doing a formal trade
proposal. Before I do this, I check a person's profile to see how recently they have logged in. If it is more than a week or so, I go no further and look elsewhere for a trade.

If they pass that check, I will then look at their trading history to make sure that other traders have had a positive experience. If so, I send of a friendly short GM in which I informally propose a trade and give a short description of condition.

My success ratio has been very high over the past 2-3 years, and after 28 trades I can honestly say that every single one has been a positive and worthwhile experience.

Only recently have two experienced traders chosen to not respond to my Geekmail, and in both cases, they were active on BGG nearly every day. That means they get added to my DB list (Don't Bother)- I don't need to deal with such rudeness again.

Maybe my experience is not typical, but it certainly has been effective for me to first inquire with a GM.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Park
United States
San Rafael
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I generally agree with David, but I do try and use GM's first when trying specific items or special case deals. But when going through that whole list of matches in the US, it gets pretty tedious to launch off an email on the side a hundred or so times.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Dawson
United States
Cincinnati
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the main reason for the geekmail system (which I really like), is that accepting a trade that way is basically final in the rules for the site. Geekmails are a good way to just talk out a trade before you go ahead and finalize it for feedback. You also tend to get more information about the condition, play count, etc. (especially if you specifically request it). I don't find them particularly inefficient, but I also don't really do a high volume of trades.

Also, all the user information you mentioned, like their trade and want lists, are available if you just go to their profile from the Geekmail. This isn't perfect, though, especially when people have a large number of games on both.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.