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Talisman (Revised 4th Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Good Variants for pit fiends? rss

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Aaron Tubb
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They only exist to challenge characters with very low strength making a run on the crown after getting a few craft boosts. I've seen the pit fiends kill people, so I personally wouldn't change them.

I think the Dragon realm inner region is a good variant inner region, though. IMO, it's a bit more balanced than the original (I ignore the text that boosts the difficulty depending on dragon scales, so it's actually slightly easier than the original inner region).
 
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Ray
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Aarontu wrote:
They only exist to challenge characters with very low strength making a run on the crown after getting a few craft boosts. I've seen the pit fiends kill people, so I personally wouldn't change them.


Agreed
 
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Ray
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When players start changing things, it tends to change the game, and in some cases, alters the game to much. The inner region is setup - more or less - for two ways for characters. One way favors strength, the other way favors craft.
 
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Elliott Eastoe
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If Lord of the Pit has been drawn during the game, all Pit Fiends Strength is increased to 8!

Ell.
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Ray
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petercox1001 wrote:
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When players start changing things, it tends to change the game, and in some cases, alters the game to much. The inner region is setup - more or less - for two ways for characters. One way favors strength, the other way favors craft.

No kidding.

God this website gets damn tiresome sometimes.

I asked if anyone had any variants they want to share, why do I end up with upteen posts of people telling me I shouldn't change anything? You're welcome to play anyway you want, as am I. Why bother posting just to say: 'no'??

Sorry to sound a bit pissy, but really.


Yes, absolutely, "You're welcome to play anyway you want". Just don't be surprised when someone at the game table says, "Let us just play by the rules as written, okay?."

And yes, God yes, this website does get damn tiresome with these people wanting to change the game.

See, it goes both ways whistle
 
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Alex F
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That may be true, but any "read as written" rules may be just arbitrary decisions by the designer. Of course, the game being playtested and written with those rules gives them far more validity, but you can always find your own enjoyable tweaks without altering the gameplay in any way.

It's even encouraged in the rulebook.

For instance, The Werewolf's den. Why roll only two dice there when you've just emerged from the crypt having rolled 3 dice. That didn't make much sense to us, so we changed it.
 
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Aaron Tubb
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Well, I did mention I like the dragon realm a bit more than the original. You should check it out if you haven't seen it; it lets you pay gold to avoid life loss at dice with death, makes the vampire more lethal, changes pit fiends to craft, and swaps the crypt and mines. It makes both paths feature a trial of both strength and craft, and somewhat balances out the wimpy vampire with the dreadful dice with death.

If you want a simple variant to make the pit fiends harder, though, here's one off the top of my head: pit fiends are strength 2, but you fight them all as one enemy (e.g. 4 pit fiends = 8 strength enemy).
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Dan
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petercox1001 wrote:
The Pit Fiends are a bit of a joke really. Str 4 ain't going to hurt anyone. Does anyone have any good variants on this, and maybe for the Wolf?

At the moment I'm thinking characters are not allowed to use Followers or Weapons in these fights (plus re-roll strength for the Werewolf every round).

Curious what other variants are out there.

Cheers,
Peter


Those are good ideas. We don't play with any variant ourselves so I can't claim to have play-tested anything, but what about just making them Str 6, instead of 4?
 
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Ray
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petercox1001 wrote:
Quote:
Yes, absolutely, "You're welcome to play anyway you want". Just don't be surprised when someone at the game table says, "Let us just play by the rules as written, okay?."

And yes, God yes, this website does get damn tiresome with these people wanting to change the game.

See, it goes both ways

You can think any way you want, just don't come in and troll variants threads about how you don't like variants.


Like you, I was just making a point, but getting back to the point, I never said I didn't like variants - that is what expansions are for. In fact, I tend to use one variant myself. Actually, more of a group agreed upon way to shorten things a bit. When a player reaches the Crown of Command, we usually play:
1) The player doesn't need to roll a die. Everyone just loses a life.
2) The player rolls the die, but if successful, everyone loses two lives.
3) Same as "1)" above but everyone loses two lives.
 
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L Brackney
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Since I mainly play with my five year old, I tend to downplay the PvP aspect of the game to keep things "less personal." Whoever gets to the crown first "wins." As she gets older, we'll hew closer to the rules and will play with alternate endings, but that approach suits us for the time being.
 
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Simon Wiese
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We changed the adventure deck of the game by kicking out "unintersting" cards, but we did not change the rules themselves or any board spaces. The only thing we sometimes do is reducing the Arnkell's ability so that you need at least a Talisman even if you skip the VoF with the Arnkell. But the Pitfiends always stayed the same and I think it is kind of strange that many people complain about them. I mean, its the Craft part, so it's ok that they are low in Strenght. I've already seen people dying at the Pitfiends. If you think they are too weak youve probably waited too long to go for the Crown.
 
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Ray
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BlackSimon wrote:
If you think they are too weak youve probably waited too long to go for the Crown.


Good point.

If there is not rush, I tend to take my time getting to the CoC, because sometimes I like moving around the board and pulling adventure cards and stuff. Usually means I waited too long to go for the CoC.
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Jon New
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To give them more of a "speed bump" you could roll for number of Pit Fiends and then fight one per turn. They still might be a push over, but you would have to wait 1 - 6 turns to proceed giving people a chance to catch up.

Hmmm... I just noticed that Peter has deleted his original question and follow up.
 
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Ray
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talismanisland wrote:
To give them more of a "speed bump" you could roll for number of Pit Fiends and then fight one per turn. They still might be a push over, but you would have to wait 1 - 6 turns to proceed giving people a chance to catch up.

Hmmm... I just noticed that Peter has deleted his original question and follow up.


I just noticed this as well. I hope it wasn't something I said.

But Jon, if you make it more of a "speed bump" are you not making it more difficult for Craft based characters? I would think a "speed bump" would be needed for both directions to prevent favoritism. Just my $0.02 worth.
 
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Jon New
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Not really as Dice with Death can be a bit of a luckfest. You can get stuck there for an age, and even have a chance of being killed.
 
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Ray
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talismanisland wrote:
Not really as Dice with Death can be a bit of a luckfest. You can get stuck there for an age, and even have a chance of being killed.


Yes, I see what you mean.

But something that Elliot mentioned about just now dawned on me. He said, "If Lord of the Pit has been drawn during the game, all Pit Fiends Strength is increased to 8!" Neat idea actually, but unfortunately it now favors Strength over Craft, and even though this whole concept of Strength is better than Craft has been watered down, something like that just tipped it back to Strength's favor.

But Lord of the Pit does that anyway, doesn't it. Once you take it out, you get to go where? Yep you guessed it. Clearly if favors "Strength", but I was wondering if it was also a good card or simply a spoiler.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/828107/lord-of-the-pit-s...
 
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Jon New
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Well, first off you have to be playing with the Reaper expansion, and secondly someone has to draw the Lord of the Pit card.

If you are playing with an up to date Adventure deck, there is a good chance that the card will not even be drawn before the game finishes.

I don't think of it as a good card or a spoiler, merely A card that can change the game. There are plenty of those in the deck as it is.

Don't forget that in 2nd Edition, which features the same Inner Region, you could only gain Craft from encounters and not by cashing in trophies. This has made it easier to boost Craft and shifts the balance again.
 
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Alex F
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As said in another thread, we have essentially balanced both Strength and Craft paths by :

1) forcing characters to fight one pit fiend per turn at the Pits

2) have the werewolf roll 3 dice for its initial strength.
3)disallowing usage of Fate in the Inner region(outside of encounters with other characters)
That's how we play right now.

This makes the outcome of both paths seem uncertain and thus exciting (craft characters can be delayed for many turns at the Pits, while Strength characters will face life-threatening challenges with Death and the Werewolf). Strength characters are usually slightly tougher anyway(Troll, Warrior), which makes it fair.
 
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