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Subject: Installing Case Blue from Matrix Games rss

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Jason Sadler
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Might be of interest to folks who like games about Case Blue.

http://matrixgames.com/products/434/details/

Just got swamped by the Soviet 5th Army in the smaller Voronezh scenario. I loved the older Korsun Pocket and Across the Dnepr. This is very similar. If you don't mind paying $40 for a game that looks like it was made in 1999, I think you can't go wrong here.

Here is the review that convinced me to pull the trigger. It has a 40 minute video of someone playing embedded in it.

http://www.outofeight.info/2012/07/decisive-campaigns-case-b...
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Wolfgang Kunz
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I bought the game and I rather prefer the old look but a good deep play-experience than the fancy "3-D real-time but no depth" - games some try to sell.

CB is old fshioned for those of us who love games from SPI etc. Hope that this series will continue. Have part 1 (Poland, France and Sealion) too.

Great, great games (and one of my first computer-wargames I bought in the last 5 years).
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Björn Hansson
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[conservative old fart]

Shouldn't this de discussed in the Videogamegeek department? Just sayin'...

[/conservative old fart]
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Eric Lai
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The last boardgamey wargame I played on the computer was "Storm Across Europe" from SSI all the way back in 1989 on the Commodore 64.

Whenever I sit in front of a computer, I'll rather play a real computer game rather than a pseudo wargame. Does anyone feel the same?
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Joe Thompson
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Garfink wrote:
Whenever I sit in front of a computer, I'll rather play a real computer game rather than a pseudo wargame. Does anyone feel the same?


Absolutely agree. But I'd rather play a boardgame.
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Michael Dorosh
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Alphawolf wrote:
I bought the game and I rather prefer the old look but a good deep play-experience than the fancy "3-D real-time but no depth" - games some try to sell.

CB is old fshioned for those of us who love games from SPI etc. Hope that this series will continue. Have part 1 (Poland, France and Sealion) too.

Great, great games (and one of my first computer-wargames I bought in the last 5 years).


I think it's great that Matrix continues to produce these types of games (incidentally, VGG has no wargaming section, so it is absolutely appropriate to discuss them here). The only real concern is that I am more and more getting the impression that Matrix is a little "fly-by-night", in that they seem to be a loose coalition of independent developers who collaborate with the publisher. They get their stuff published that way, but then some of them seem to disappear before the products go through the natural evolution of patches and product improvements.

Maybe I'm posting that the sky is blue, but I'm only just now starting to realize this having come to stumble over Maximum Football a couple of years after the buzz is over, finding the publisher has moved on to other things, leaving a lot of potential in the product's wake, but also much unfinished business.

Panzer Command: Ostfront, for which I beta tested, seems to be in a weird state of limbo now too, with the coming and going of developers.

Neither of these are the 2D-type wargames you mention, but illustrate the frustrations of games that would benefit from continued development, but for some reason haven't or whose future is uncertain. I own some of the more conventional 2-D stuff - Combat Command, by Matrix, and tried Tigers Unleashed but they don't seem to attract a large following, probably because of the popularity of 3D.
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Keith Rose
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I think that automating all the calculations needed to play a boardgame can only be a good thing. There are several games in this genre (the most "boardgamey" probably being Ron Dockal's Russo German War & associated games). Excellent games, reasonable AI (ie: always a solo game available)& no need for a degree in maths or a lawyer to play.
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keithrose wrote:
I think that automating all the calculations needed to play a boardgame can only be a good bad thing.


There. Fixed that for you.
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Mateusz Wilk
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Have you gus played "Unity of Command", also from Matrix Games? (They sell it at least, I don't recall if they developed it.) Not quite the level of complexity of "Decisive Campaigns", but also worth a look in my opinion.
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Skip Franklin
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I bought into http://videogamegeek.com/videogame/80258/john-tillers-campai... John Tiller's Campaign Series from Matrix and play it every 4 or 5 months for a game or two.
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Jason Sadler
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The Campaign Series is one of the best.
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Michael Lucey
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BeatPosse wrote:
The Campaign Series is one of the best.


I like how Matrix is bringing this back as well as a few other games. They have added a number of turn based games that play like board games recently. Fields of Glory is a series that I found interesting, gives me enough of the C&C Ancients solitaire experience to offset the lack of FtF capabilities of the boardgame. I want to get Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! – Russia 1941-42 to supplement my ASL gaming when I can't play against an opponent.
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Michael Lucey
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Garfink wrote:
The last boardgamey wargame I played on the computer was "Storm Across Europe" from SSI all the way back in 1989 on the Commodore 64.

Whenever I sit in front of a computer, I'll rather play a real computer game rather than a pseudo wargame. Does anyone feel the same?


I don't. I find most computer games take advantage of processing speed to overload the gamer with complexity which ends up overwhelming the AI as well. In the end you get a game with great graphics and super cool ideas that fail to game well and the AI opponent is dumber than a bag of rocks and the gameplay suffers to the point of unplayable.

Boardgames usually don't suffer from any of those problems, so one ported over to eVersions with a logic based AI offers a great alternative to the real problem many of us face, no gaming or solo gaming with a small gaming window and no storage capabilities.
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Scoobysnacks wrote:
I find most computer games take advantage of processing speed to overload the gamer with complexity which ends up overwhelming the AI as well. In the end you get a game with great graphics and super cool ideas that fail to game well and the AI opponent is dumber than a bag of rocks and the gameplay suffers to the point of unplayable.


Agree wholeheartedly. This seems the natural evolution with pc wargame developers. They start out with the great, fine & playable People's Tactics, go commercial with the good Advanced Tactics and then get lost in the minutiae of the Decisive Campaigns series. More data does not mean better historical accuracy, it just means more work.

Scoobysnacks wrote:

Boardgames usually don't suffer from any of those problems, so one ported over to eVersions with a logic based AI offers a great alternative to the real problem many of us face, no gaming or solo gaming with a small gaming window and no storage capabilities.


This is the medicine I've been promoting for years - all to no avail

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Alec Clair
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taragalinas wrote:
[conservative old fart]

Shouldn't this de discussed in the Videogamegeek department? Just sayin'...

[/conservative old fart]


Videogamegeek's forums are far less active than here. It certainly make sense to post there. But if you want some feedback about computer wargames you should rather post here.
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I've been playing through the Grand Campaign of Panzer Corps (because I'm a sucker for the old Panzer General series).

I love Korsun Pocket but the AI just isn't strong enough. I'd love to get another game like this, and Case Blue looks good, but I'm worried that it won't be challenging enough. The comments above support this fear, are there any thoughts contrary to this?
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Justus Pendleton
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GeneSteeler wrote:
I love Korsun Pocket but the AI just isn't strong enough.


Korsun Pocket allows you to play against another person -- just like a boardgame -- why not try that instead of relying on AI?

Korsun Pocket even supports PBEM so you can probably play against yourself, just like everyone does with boardgames.
 
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Garfink wrote:
The last boardgamey wargame I played on the computer was "Storm Across Europe" from SSI all the way back in 1989 on the Commodore 64.

Whenever I sit in front of a computer, I'll rather play a real computer game rather than a pseudo wargame. Does anyone feel the same?


Saved up for weeks in my Jr. year of high school to buy that game! It was one of the first games I ever pre-ordered! Loved it!
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Alec Clair
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GeneSteeler wrote:
I've been playing through the Grand Campaign of Panzer Corps (because I'm a sucker for the old Panzer General series).


I'm also in PzCorps Grand Campaign, starting the 44 DLC, it's fun and the campaign mode is well done. The DLC scenarios are rather good. I'm playing at Field Marshall level but the AI isn't very strong. Another good point is that the developers keep improving the product with free update.
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Wolfgang Kunz
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GeneSteeler wrote:
I'd love to get another game like this, and Case Blue looks good, but I'm worried that it won't be challenging enough. The comments above support this fear, are there any thoughts contrary to this?


From my experience form the first one in this line (Case White / Yellow / Sealion): You can tweak the AI and
a) give 'em an advantage and
b) give 'em more time to think (which should result in better moves).

From my limited experience I find the game challenging (but I'm not a super-computer-freak) but also use this system to play against my buddy. Combining this game with my ftf / Vassal / experience it comes right thru, helping me when I won't roll the dice and do the calculations myself. The fog-of-war is a nice addition which I can't simulate so well when solo-ing a game.
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Jason Sadler
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There are people on the forum discussing the impossibility of winning the Case Blue scenarios. I don't know if that is because the situation is completely hopeless or because it is well programmed. I can't win the Voronezh scenario, but there is a strong possibility that I just suck.

GeneSteeler wrote:
I've been playing through the Grand Campaign of Panzer Corps (because I'm a sucker for the old Panzer General series).

I love Korsun Pocket but the AI just isn't strong enough. I'd love to get another game like this, and Case Blue looks good, but I'm worried that it won't be challenging enough. The comments above support this fear, are there any thoughts contrary to this?
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Alphawolf wrote:
GeneSteeler wrote:
I'd love to get another game like this, and Case Blue looks good, but I'm worried that it won't be challenging enough. The comments above support this fear, are there any thoughts contrary to this?


From my experience form the first one in this line (Case White / Yellow / Sealion): You can tweak the AI and
a) give 'em an advantage and
b) give 'em more time to think (which should result in better moves).

From my limited experience I find the game challenging (but I'm not a super-computer-freak) but also use this system to play against my buddy. Combining this game with my ftf / Vassal / experience it comes right thru, helping me when I won't roll the dice and do the calculations myself. The fog-of-war is a nice addition which I can't simulate so well when solo-ing a game.


I'm 90% sold on getting this. I've been eyeing it for quite some time now. I'm just behind Alec and almost finished the '43 East of Panzer Corps. So I'm not in a major hurry. So if nothing more tempting comes along, I'll probably grab it in a few months.

I've got Vassal and "real" boardgames for when I want to play those ways.

For me computer gaming fills a particular niche. You can play whenever you want, for however long you want. There is no commitment so you can play 2 hours one day, then not again for a month if that is your fancy. Also, it allows me to play "longer" without taking up precious table space.
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Jason Sadler
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I finally beat the Voronezh scenario. I think the AI might be worse than Korsun Pocket when given the "normal" amount of time to think. It couldn't contain breakthroughs and couldn't figure out it needed to break out of forming pockets. I still very much enjoy the game and will give the AI some more computational cycles next time I play.
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BeatPosse wrote:
Might be of interest to folks who like games about Case Blue.

http://matrixgames.com/products/434/details/

Just got swamped by the Soviet 5th Army in the smaller Voronezh scenario. I loved the older Korsun Pocket and Across the Dnepr. This is very similar. If you don't mind paying $40 for a game that looks like it was made in 1999, I think you can't go wrong here.

Here is the review that convinced me to pull the trigger. It has a 40 minute video of someone playing embedded in it.

http://www.outofeight.info/2012/07/decisive-campaigns-case-b...


Thanks for the post. I will check out the game reviews.
 
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