Jayson Myers
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Check out my other reviews at:

http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/145695/item/2268134#item22...




Conclusion:

I guess I will be the first person to review this game on this site.

This is not a good game. I have no idea what lead me to believe this would be a good game. This is based on a board game that is not that great. I guess the game was cheap and I thought making it quicker might be good for it. Nope, just make it dumber.

The game is overly simple, you have zero decisions to make, and some of the cards don't really make sense. It was like they had cards left over from the board game so they made a card game out of it (except for the fact the map is on the back of the cards).

I can't stress enough that this is not a good game.

Automatic purge.



Components:

You get an over sized box, a deck of cards, and one dreaded die. Oh, and tons of air.

The cards are flimsy, but not overly cheap. I'd worry about them if I was going to play this game again (I'm not). The die is pretty standard.

Subpar.



Rule Book:

A simple sheet of cheap paper. The rules are simple, because there is nothing to do in this game (decision wise). Of course, some of the cards don't make sense and need explaining, which the rules do. When I explain the flow of the game, you will be laughing at how simple this game is.



Flow of the Game:

Let me see if I can explain this. Each player gets a deck of cards (18 in a 2 player), the rest go back in the box. You take 3 cards to be your ammo. Then you have a deck of 15.

Each of the cards are double sided. One side with a map and a number of zombies, the other side with ammo, text, actions (like Zombies the board game). All the art work is from the board game.

On your turn, you flip over one card from your deck and play it in the center of the table in the "map" pile. You then fight the number of zombies listed on the card.

You roll the dice to see if you killed the zombie (4,5,6 you did; yea!). If you roll below that number, you have to use your ammo cards which get put on the bottom of your draw deck (so you have a draw deck, ammo deck, map deck in the center, and cards in your hands). If you run out of ammo cards, you pull cards from under the map deck (huh? why?). If the map deck runs out of cards (except for top one), then you die and lose.

If the draw deck gets to zero cards, you get away in a helicopter (??). You want to keep cards out of your draw and either in the map deck, ammo deck, or in your hand.

Cards used from your hand (you can use one per turn) get put in the ammo pile after being used.


Should I buy this?

Um. No. In all fairness, the game works the way it is designed. It is just no fun as you make no decisions (except for which card in your hand to use). Otherwise, you flip a card, roll a dice, and hope you have enough cards to stay alive.

I understand quick games and I understand themed games, but my goodness there needs to be something to do and/or decision to make. You can't just be rolling a dice and turning over a card.

Purge and I advise you skip.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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Probably disagree with this review as much as any I've ever read on BGG. Game is mostly for fans of the board game Zombies!!! who wanted a version that could be played more quickly with a smaller footprint. Much of the game in ingenious. The review also includes a slap at the board game that really isn't easy to believe since Zombies!!! is up to its 11th different variation. To me this sounds like someone who just wanted to do something negative or was predisposed not to like it before writing.
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Jayson Myers
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rickert wrote:
Probably disagree with this review as much as any I've ever read on BGG. Game is mostly for fans of the board game Zombies!!! who wanted a version that could be played more quickly with a smaller footprint. Much of the game in ingenious. The review also includes a slap at the board game that really isn't easy to believe since Zombies!!! is up to its 11th different variation. To me this sounds like someone who just wanted to do something negative or was predisposed not to like it before writing.



Nope not at all. I have a few variations of the Zombies!!! Board Game. I even have Humans and Martians. I've also reviewed other Twilight Games some positive and some negative.

In addition, I bought this game from Cool Stuff the day it was released. Zombies!!!: Board Game was one of the first games I ever bought and I played it a lot (more than it is good, if that makes sense).

Zomibes!!! I believe sells a lot because it is priced good, looks great, and has a terrific theme.

100% props that it is a shorter version of the board game with a small footprint. If you like Zombies!!!: The Board Game, you will likely like this. Maybe I just wanted this to be better or I hyped it up, I just couldn't imagine playing this all the time.

In addition, I am huge fan of the Zombie genre.

I don't think there is something wrong with me just because I don't like this game. Believe it or not, this is a company I'm rooting for because I like their themed games (theme more than the games to be honest). There was a total lack of decisions, but that is like the Board Game and you are right. It is a fun dice roller. This is too a dice roller.

To each their own I suppose.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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Doesn't sound like rooting. Sounds like despising. Yes, I agree to each his own and I was giving my own, which you should expect by now if you've done other reviews. Not sure why you'd buy games that are bad or not that great just because of theme. Not sure why the gamers would feel like buying enough of Zombies!!! that there are 11 versions if the game just has theme and looks good. I take it you must not like card games in general because with many of them there's nothing to do but decide which card to play. It just seems that the gamer you claim to be and what you wrote about this game, Zombies!!! and Twilight Creations don't fit together. But to each his own.
 
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rickert wrote:
Doesn't sound like rooting. Sounds like despising. Yes, I agree to each his own and I was giving my own, which you should expect by now if you've done other reviews. Not sure why you'd buy games that are bad or not that great just because of theme. Not sure why the gamers would feel like buying enough of Zombies!!! that there are 11 versions if the game just has theme and looks good. I take it you must not like card games in general because with many of them there's nothing to do but decide which card to play. It just seems that the gamer you claim to be and what you wrote about this game, Zombies!!! and Twilight Creations don't fit together. But to each his own.


Yeah, I wasn't trying to attack; just explaining where I was coming from. Believe it or not, I buy almost all of the Twilight Creation games. They are not the greatest of games, but they seem to be true horror fans and I like to support them.

To be honest, I wasn't a huge fan of card games even as soon as a year ago. Yet, they are the easiest to get the wife to play (they are shorter normally). My biggest disappointment in TC is that they always seem to be on the verge of a great game and I think that the easy way out. With the production on Zombies!!! and the idea behind, if they could have made the game a tad shorter and more than just waiting for the helicopter, it would have been great (like a reason to go in the buildings). I sort of like their game where you are in the neighborhood and you have to horde up in a house and I really, really like the one where you are in one house and you can go to the store and get supplies (I'm to lazy to look up the names of the games right now, but I did review them).

I didn't say it in my review, but this game reminded me a lot of war. I was just mindlessly turning over some cards (and rolling some dice).

I'll continue to support these guys and I hope they come up with something unique (they have done it before). I write my reviews really for myself. They are more a record of my thoughts on a game so I remember it a year later (or whatever).

I will say some good things about this game:

Pros:

1. I really like the artwork. I find the pictures funny and "horror" at the same time (not too over the top).
2. It moves pretty fast, which was the biggest complaint about Zombies!!! the Board Game.
3. If you are a fan of the Board Game, you should really like this.
3. The game is simple. Other than the artwork, you can play with people of all ages.
4. This is a game you can play at lunch, with new gamers (I believe its intention), as a light filler before playing a bigger, deeper game, or while drinking a beer.
5. It doesn't over complicate things. I see this with a lot of games.

To be honest, everything considered, this might be better than the board game version. If you were going to play one, it might be this one. The board game is better themed with the cool minis and the moving through town killing zombies (or Zombies!!!).

I'll review the board game at some point. I may have been harsher than I meant to be in the review. To be honest, this was a game I was looking forward to and after turning over some cards and rolling one dice over and over and over, I was really disappointed. I couldn't imagine playing it again (granted this was after playing Lord of the Rings: Nazgul and pulling cubes from a can over and over and over).

I hope there are no hard feelings about my opinion. I'll continue to support this company.

Perhaps it was in poor taste to post the first review as a negative one. I'll keep that in mind in the future.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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I only have hard feelings about the review, not the reviewer. I enjoy the board game, though due its length I don't play it a lot. But I do think there are reasons to go into buildings in the board game. I think the card game does a good job of capturing the feel of the board game without the long game time and the large spread of space.
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rickert wrote:
I only have hard feelings about the review, not the reviewer. I enjoy the board game, though due its length I don't play it a lot. But I do think there are reasons to go into buildings in the board game. I think the card game does a good job of capturing the feel of the board game without the long game time and the large spread of space.



Possibly that is true. I just wish there were more decisions to be made.
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Todd Breitenstein
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Look, I do understand that this game will not be for everybody. We quit trying to please everyone a long time ago. (Having teenagers cured us of that...LOL)

The irony is that your "pros" list is pretty much exactly what we were going for from a design standpoint. Honestly, the game is called: "Zombies!!! the Card Game" what did you expect?

I think we did an excellent job of simulating the BG. We are very proud of this game.
Best regards,
Todd A. Breitenstein
Twilight Creations, Inc.


william4192 wrote:


I will say some good things about this game:

Pros:

1. I really like the artwork. I find the pictures funny and "horror" at the same time (not too over the top).
2. It moves pretty fast, which was the biggest complaint about Zombies!!! the Board Game.
3. If you are a fan of the Board Game, you should really like this.
3. The game is simple. Other than the artwork, you can play with people of all ages.
4. This is a game you can play at lunch, with new gamers (I believe its intention), as a light filler before playing a bigger, deeper game, or while drinking a beer.
5. It doesn't over complicate things. I see this with a lot of games.

I hope there are no hard feelings about my opinion. I'll continue to support this company.

Perhaps it was in poor taste to post the first review as a negative one. I'll keep that in mind in the future.
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I think you did too and will write that opinion this coming week in a review of this game and The Current Number of the Beast.

toddbreitenstein wrote:
Look, I do understand that this game will not be for everybody. We quit trying to please everyone a long time ago. (Having teenagers cured us of that...LOL)

The irony is that your "pros" list is pretty much exactly what we were going for from a design standpoint. Honestly, the game is called: "Zombies!!! the Card Game" what did you expect?

I think we did an excellent job of simulating the BG. We are very proud of this game.
Best regards,
Todd A. Breitenstein
Twilight Creations, Inc.


william4192 wrote:


I will say some good things about this game:

Pros:

1. I really like the artwork. I find the pictures funny and "horror" at the same time (not too over the top).
2. It moves pretty fast, which was the biggest complaint about Zombies!!! the Board Game.
3. If you are a fan of the Board Game, you should really like this.
3. The game is simple. Other than the artwork, you can play with people of all ages.
4. This is a game you can play at lunch, with new gamers (I believe its intention), as a light filler before playing a bigger, deeper game, or while drinking a beer.
5. It doesn't over complicate things. I see this with a lot of games.

I hope there are no hard feelings about my opinion. I'll continue to support this company.

Perhaps it was in poor taste to post the first review as a negative one. I'll keep that in mind in the future.
 
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Andre Lucato
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Though I´m not a fan of the gameplay itself, one of the things that should be worth mentioning as a pro about Zombies!! Board game is the box size. When I first saw it, it reminded me of some sort of VHS collector´s edition box of an awesome B-movie.
 
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Ian Allen
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The OP and I agree on so many things I am going to take him at his word and skip this one.

I think Zombies! the board game is an OK game (I wasn't enormously happy about the game end condition but I think I remember house rules that adjusted that to make it bearable) and it would have probably done better if LNOE hadn't come along and made it look pretty dull in comparison. And now with Zombicide out as the new Strawberry flavor to LNOE's Chocolate flavor, there really isn't room for Zombies! the board game in my collection any more.

LNOE and Zombicide are a level above Zombies! the boardgame just as Zombies! the boardgame is a level above the When Darkness Falls line, ZombieTown, and now it sounds like .... Zombies! the Card game as well.

Keep on writing these cool Purge reviews. Its ok to not like something despite a few people firing back at you. I believe you and will give this one a pass.

As to the Twilight Creations people. I really am sorry that I end up bashing your stuff so often. I want to like you. I bought many of your games and played them. I tried my best. I would much rather you succeed than fail, but I just haven't seen anything yet that makes me feel like you have risen above the many issues I have with your games. This doesn't sound like the one, but I am rooting for you and hope one day to be able to endorse one of your products.

You are still in business probably due to the theme of your games alone, even if the mechanics or rulebooks often fall short. If you slap enough zombies and martians and rabid dogs on a box enough times, you will sell a certain amount of games despite them not being the leader in their categories (just ask Steve Jackson).

This is just my opinion obviously and other people may think some of your games are wonderful.

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I think it is fairly short-sighted to think that an opinion against all of a companies is well-founded and broadly felt when the company continues to do well. To think it is only due to theme is also, I believe, not grounded in logic.
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I could ground my argument in logic, but I have already done so ad nauseum in other places and I don't feel like doing it here.

Out of aprox 8100 rated games on BGG -

When Darkness Comes rating is 5633
Zombies! bgg rating is 6780
Zombietown bgg rating is 7037
Cthulhu Rising is 7347
All Wound Up is 7871
Award Show is 7904
Dante's Inferno is 8043

So I am hardly out on a limb here with my opinion.

My only question is how can a company stay in business with a track record like that. The answer I come up with is - theme and packaging.
Some people will buy a goat turd if it has a picture of a zombie on the front of it. I used to be like that myself.

If I am wrong then please explain it to me? The biggest hit they have is Easter Island at 1995 rating or so. I doubt that is holding the entire company afloat.

Again - I really hate saying stuff like this about people who are obviously trying hard. I just wish they would get it right and I would be the first one running around talking about how they have turned things around.

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Yes, I thought I should have been more fair, so I added the pros list.

Sad thing is, I buy all your games sight unseen and review unseen. I was super pumped for this game. The day it came out, it was ordered.

I understand you can't please everyone. I would pay quite a penny for one of your games if you ever made one a little deeper.

Zombie Survival is one of my two favorite zombie games (with Last Night on Earth) with Zombie Town third and Zombies!!! fourth.

I don't know what I expected with this game. In some regards, I'm glad it is not a deck builder (like Eaten by Zombies) and it is exactly like the board game.

Overall, if you like the board game, you will like this. If you like the board game but want it to be shorter, than this is it.


toddbreitenstein wrote:
Look, I do understand that this game will not be for everybody. We quit trying to please everyone a long time ago. (Having teenagers cured us of that...LOL)

The irony is that your "pros" list is pretty much exactly what we were going for from a design standpoint. Honestly, the game is called: "Zombies!!! the Card Game" what did you expect?

I think we did an excellent job of simulating the BG. We are very proud of this game.
Best regards,
Todd A. Breitenstein
Twilight Creations, Inc.


william4192 wrote:


I will say some good things about this game:

Pros:

1. I really like the artwork. I find the pictures funny and "horror" at the same time (not too over the top).
2. It moves pretty fast, which was the biggest complaint about Zombies!!! the Board Game.
3. If you are a fan of the Board Game, you should really like this.
3. The game is simple. Other than the artwork, you can play with people of all ages.
4. This is a game you can play at lunch, with new gamers (I believe its intention), as a light filler before playing a bigger, deeper game, or while drinking a beer.
5. It doesn't over complicate things. I see this with a lot of games.

I hope there are no hard feelings about my opinion. I'll continue to support this company.

Perhaps it was in poor taste to post the first review as a negative one. I'll keep that in mind in the future.
 
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glookose wrote:
The OP and I agree on so many things I am going to take him at his word and skip this one.

I think Zombies! the board game is an OK game (I wasn't enormously happy about the game end condition but I think I remember house rules that adjusted that to make it bearable) and it would have probably done better if LNOE hadn't come along and made it look pretty dull in comparison. And now with Zombicide out as the new Strawberry flavor to LNOE's Chocolate flavor, there really isn't room for Zombies! the board game in my collection any more.

LNOE and Zombicide are a level above Zombies! the boardgame just as Zombies! the boardgame is a level above the When Darkness Falls line, ZombieTown, and now it sounds like .... Zombies! the Card game as well.

Keep on writing these cool Purge reviews. Its ok to not like something despite a few people firing back at you. I believe you and will give this one a pass.

As to the Twilight Creations people. I really am sorry that I end up bashing your stuff so often. I want to like you. I bought many of your games and played them. I tried my best. I would much rather you succeed than fail, but I just haven't seen anything yet that makes me feel like you have risen above the many issues I have with your games. This doesn't sound like the one, but I am rooting for you and hope one day to be able to endorse one of your products.

You are still in business probably due to the theme of your games alone, even if the mechanics or rulebooks often fall short. If you slap enough zombies and martians and rabid dogs on a box enough times, you will sell a certain amount of games despite them not being the leader in their categories (just ask Steve Jackson).

This is just my opinion obviously and other people may think some of your games are wonderful.




Glad someone agrees with me on something

In all fairness, Zombies!!!! BG, came out first. Not a surprise someone would come along and upgrade it (LNOE). If it wasn't for the time it takes to play Zombies (variants fix this), I think it would stand the test of time as a quick Zombie game.

I'll keep just telling my opinion, as these reviews are mainly a record for me Although I'm happy other people read them (and I have to admit surprised).

My biggest disappointment is I can tell this company is a huge fan of horror (as am I). They make light horror games (I just wish they were shorter). I want I mean by that is I don't mind a light game; I just want it to be shorter (as they can go on too long).

I tend to agree with this assessment. If you put certain things on game boxes, geeks like me will buy them. If you are making cash, keep doing it. Lord knows that is why I go to work. I don't think the games are horrible or money grabs. I think they are on the verge of greatness which is why I root for you guys.

Please take this as a fan of yours with an opinion and not a hater. I can't do what you do which is make a board game, I'm just a player and I have all the respect in the world for what you do. I'm just a consumer rooting you along.
 
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rickert wrote:
I think it is fairly short-sighted to think that an opinion against all of a companies is well-founded and broadly felt when the company continues to do well. To think it is only due to theme is also, I believe, not grounded in logic.



He is successful because he is a smart guy who designed a good game. It is so much better than most. I think people want a great zombie game so bad and Twilight Creations is are best hope.

This is a company many people are watching and waiting for an epic game. The Zombie theme is something people are waiting for an epic game.

I think this company can do both.

In a review, we don't really look at profits, we look at the game. Bad games can sell (Monopoly; not comparing the two).
 
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From a business point of view, I think TC has a great model.

Good, not great game. Theme that sells at a great price. I feel I get my money's worth, but I also see a company that could knock it out of the park too.

glookose wrote:
I could ground my argument in logic, but I have already done so ad nauseum in other places and I don't feel like doing it here.

Out of aprox 8100 rated games on BGG -

When Darkness Comes rating is 5633
Zombies! bgg rating is 6780
Zombietown bgg rating is 7037
Cthulhu Rising is 7347
All Wound Up is 7871
Award Show is 7904
Dante's Inferno is 8043

So I am hardly out on a limb here with my opinion.

My only question is how can a company stay in business with a track record like that. The answer I come up with is - theme and packaging.
Some people will buy a goat turd if it has a picture of a zombie on the front of it. I used to be like that myself.

If I am wrong then please explain it to me? The biggest hit they have is Easter Island at 1995 rating or so. I doubt that is holding the entire company afloat.

Again - I really hate saying stuff like this about people who are obviously trying hard. I just wish they would get it right and I would be the first one running around talking about how they have turned things around.

 
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I am really glad the BGG has the rating system because I am interested to read it. But I have never used to it influence even one buying decision. I suspect that there are quite a few out there like me since Zombies!!! now has a No. 11 and the game's ratings aren't all that hot. But I remain unconvinced that all of these sales are attributed to gamers being duped by a zombie on the cover and the title. That might work once or twice, but I doubt it will work 11 times. I consider Zombies!! to be like Munchkin as being games BGG people seem to enjoy rating low. But Munchkin sales are at a level that almost any game creator would die for.
 
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rickert wrote:
I am really glad the BGG has the rating system because I am interested to read it. But I have never used to it influence even one buying decision. I suspect that there are quite a few out there like me since Zombies!!! now has a No. 11 and the game's ratings aren't all that hot. But I remain unconvinced that all of these sales are attributed to gamers being duped by a zombie on the cover and the title. That might work once or twice, but I doubt it will work 11 times. I consider Zombies!! to be like Munchkin as being games BGG people seem to enjoy rating low. But Munchkin sales are at a level that almost any game creator would die for.


I think you may have nailed it. This is a lighter game, with a great price point, and a great theme. This would be more mainstream than a site like this. I don't think anyone is saying it is garbage. Just has the potential to be even better.
 
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rickert wrote:
I am really glad the BGG has the rating system because I am interested to read it. But I have never used to it influence even one buying decision. I suspect that there are quite a few out there like me since Zombies!!! now has a No. 11 and the game's ratings aren't all that hot. But I remain unconvinced that all of these sales are attributed to gamers being duped by a zombie on the cover and the title. That might work once or twice, but I doubt it will work 11 times. I consider Zombies!! to be like Munchkin as being games BGG people seem to enjoy rating low. But Munchkin sales are at a level that almost any game creator would die for.


I just recently went over to a game day where the majority of the people playing were not what I would call "gamers". They only owned 1 or 2 games total and had probably only played those 2 games ever other than party games like Apples to Apples and the ubiquitous monopoly/risk type games.

Guess what the 2 games were that they pulled out to play that night? One group pulled out Zombies! and the other friends pulled out Munchkin Cthulhu.

So maybe people can be successful by using theme and box art to sell to non-gamers and maybe that's the answer.

If you have only ever eaten tree bark then you probably don't know that a steak tastes much better and you will be content to buy and eat tree bark while others that know better eat the good stuff.

I played Munchkin Cthulhu with them and it was pretty dreadful. I am a huge Cthulhu fan but the joke names on the cards were so dumb that I didn't find them amusing at all. The game went on for nearly 2 hours with 4 people. Everytime someone would go for it the others would knock them back down. Had the game lasted 15 minutes I would probably be singing its praises, but at 1 hour and 45 minutes I decided I would take my copy and throw it unplayed on the trade stack with everything else I own by TC or Steve Jackson.

I don't use the rating system to make my buying choices, but I use it as a general guide to let me know whether games have glaring problems or not. If a game is over the 5000 mark in the ratings then it usually has something wrong with it like the awful original rule book that came with ZombieTown.

As for the expansions, there are 2 kinds of people buying them. The first kind is people who think Zombies! is great and don't know about LNOE or Zombicide. The 2nd kind is people like me, and there are thousands of us on the geek, that are completionists and have to have everything that comes out for every game we own.

I am currently sitting on every expansion for Munchkin and Munchkin Cthulhu and was up to about 4 zombies! expansions I think when I stopped collecting it. I also have all the When Darkness Falls expansions. So don't let it be said that I haven't paid my dues and helped support TC and SJG. I have, but I am much wiser now than when I started and all of that stuff is on the giant trade stack on the floor of my game room where I plan to get rid of it in my next giant auction starting right after Dragoncon.
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Todd Breitenstein
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Campbell County
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Hi Rick,
So are Zombies!!! sales...
Todd
Twilight Creations, Inc.


rickert wrote:
But Munchkin sales are at a level that almost any game creator would die for.
 
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Mike Malley
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Zombies and Munchkin are evergreens. You can knock them all you want, but let's face it: evergreens are too busy paying the bills to notice.

As for Zombicide being steak, its rulebook isn't going to win any awards, scenario balance is all over the map, player balance exists only by controlling multiple characters, it's not an inexpensive game, and it's co-op, which isn't a plus for everyone. There are all kinds of reasons why someone would pick up Zombies besides just being accustomed to eating bark.
 
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Rick Teverbaugh
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Anderson
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toddbreitenstein wrote:
Hi Rick,
So are Zombies!!! sales...
Todd
Twilight Creations, Inc.


rickert wrote:
But Munchkin sales are at a level that almost any game creator would die for.


Glad to hear that. I used the Munchkin example because SJG openly discusses sales of it and I've never discussed sales of Zombies!!! with you so I didn't want to publicly state what I privately assume. I am glad sales are good because I think the line of games is engaging, tactical and fun.
 
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Ian Allen
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I'll state again that Zombies! is an ok game. It must span the link between non-gamers and gamers. I see it show up in stores all over the place. It is THE game of choice for people who are not familiar with boardgaming and who are wandering around the local hobby shop or Borders or whatever. They see it and say - "cool - a game about zombies!" and buy it. And play it. And enjoy it.

There is nothing wrong with that - and if TC does nothing else but get thousands of people into the gaming world with a gateway zombie game then they are making a big contribution and I applaud them for it. If they make tons of money doing it then even better!

The same can't be said for some of the other efforts though. They do have several flops on their record. It is frustrating to go buy a game with as much theme as all their games exhibit only to discover its not that good.

If better zombie games hadn't come along then I might still be playing zombies! myself. TC can't be faulted for the fact that other people made better zombie games. If they want to always make money and are not concerned with making something people consider great then they are probably on the right path.

I personally will not buy another TC game without some serious research and hopefully playing a friends copy first after the several duds I have paid good money for at this point.

So you can say all you want about the OP and his review, but he is performing a useful service and making legitimate complaints. TC and TC lovers shouldn't expect to get a warm reception on a "gamers" website until the day they produce a "gamers" game.

The strange thing to me is that Todd B. seems to take a great interest in what people say about his company's games. I think that is awesome and it makes me like him and his co. 1 notch better - to see active participation from his end. It is almost like TC will do what it takes to make money from the non-gamer crowd Steve Jackson style, but at heart they really would like to make a great "gamers" game at some point.

So, like I said earlier, I will continue to root for them. Unfortunately it sounds like Zombies! the card game is just another one for the dust bin. Hopefully it sells well to the "wandering through Borders" crowd and can finance an effort at something that will be awesome.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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Funny but it always seemed to me that to be a "gamer" one only needed to play games.
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