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Wiz-War (eighth edition)» Forums » Variants

Subject: Removing Wizard Elimination rss

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Rusty Shackelford
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A lot of people hate Any kind of player elimination, and it makes sense, it's no fun if you get killed and can't do anything (Usually, although myself, I actually like watching board games ). In the games my group plays death is a LOT more common than I keep seeing people claim it is. Often times people win by killing all 2 or 3 other wizards too.

So, the solution. A dead wizard drops all items, his cards go to the killing player, and his corpse teleports to the killing player's home base. The player controlling said dead wizard respawns as a new wizard (Either A: Use the original wizard piece and use something like a hat to show the corpse in the home square of the killing player, or B: Have more minis and use a new one each time. This is more fun and you get to show the dead wizard as actually lying down dead in the home base of the killing player.).

This new wizard then draws 4 cards to start, and begins play with -1 VP. (If he's killed again he'd start with 3 cards, and -2 VP, etc) Any chests in his home base count as VP for him, and he spawns at his home base.

The corpse is Not a permanent VP. It can be picked up and carried to a player's base, much like a chest, except for some minor differences. While carrying a corpse your base move is reduced by 1 (Exceptions: Big Man Form, Golem Form, Werewolf Form, and Slime Form are all unaffected by this. Gnome form still loses 1 movement. Slime form is treated like a gelatinous cube that can pick up the corpse in itself, Werewolves are naturally stronger and faster and are designed for carrying dead animals home to devour. Golem and Big Man are just exceptionally strong.) and on initial pickup you still end your turn, unless a card says otherwise. In addition to these effects you are also effectively stunned. For the duration of carrying the corpse you can only move or attack, not both (Can still cast as much as want obviously).

Lastly, if the killed player returns his corpse to his home base he resurrects as his original wizard, draws an extra card, and gains back the lost VP. The corpse is also now considered out of play. This only works for the killed player, other wizards returning the corpse home just get the usual 1 VP and a nice smell of rotting flesh.
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Mike Adachi
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Corpses as movable VPs is a really nice notion. I like it! Now we need a necromantics school!

Another idea is that a killed player becomes a ghost and must find his body to resurrect, a bit like in some mmorpgs. In ghost form it is immune to most things, but could conceivably be killed even more ("and STAY down!") for additional VP.
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Rusty Shackelford
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Hm, interesting idea Mike. How much health would the ghost have though? And can the ghost cast spells? attack? What attacks would hurt it and wouldn't? Seems a tad more convoluted to come up with a full listing there.

Also, if it automatically resurrects upon landing on their corpse, wouldn't that make it unfair for the player who killed them as they can also take a chest at the same time and leave.
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Mike Adachi
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Ok, let's play with this as a potential rule addition :)

1) Presumably the ghost would appear at the wizards' home base square.
2) It would draw spells as usual, but couldn't use "physical" spells or energy cards
3) It would pay for spells with its own hit points
4) It would have around 10 health perhaps when spawned?
5) It would only take damage from purely magical attacks, but take double damage from them?
6) Merging with its body would end its turn.
7) Mergin with its body would cause anyone carrying it to drop the now suddenly spry and wriggling wizard.
8) The resurrected wizard would have very low health, perhaps five?

Has it got potential?
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Rusty Shackelford
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I think it would work in a more advanced game, but the real problem is it limits the ghost wizard significantly to the point where they can be killed before they even get another turn after being resurrected.

I would probably make them res at 2 times their current ghost health, max of 15 instead. And just to prevent an overeager ghost killing someone with a single spell from max health I'd limit them to a max of 3 health per spell for energy. I know the normal max is 6, but those are A: rare, and B: More something for living wizards.

The hard part would be defining all the physical spells. The energy cards are obvious. I would presume Items are out for sure. But what other spells are physical? And maybe allow them to cast them, but the items are immediately dropped.

Also, possibly a way to make the ghost a bit less useful, give it the slime's ability to pass through doors and also add in any wall with at least 1 crack in it.

I think the player who plays as the ghost should be allowed to discard up to all their spells/hand/etc on reviving to move 1 square per card discarded as well though to get away from enemies, etc.

And to prevent immediate chest grab and run, throw in a new kind of stun where they are still regaining their strength for 1d2 (half the d4 included in the game) turns, starting at their next turn. While regaining health they are unable to pick up chests, and they deal half physical damage, rounded up (Don't want them dealing 0 damage, no matter what)

Lastly, a corpse is an acceptable target for any and all spells. Obviously you can't cast a self targeting spell on a corpse as you aren't the corpse, but you could move the corpse, or deal ongoing damage to it so the player who gets it back takes damage from the start.

Maybe even add in the ability to destroy a corpse too if you deal 30+ HP of damage to it before a player can revive on it. That would require another counter for it of some type if that's in.
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Mike Adachi
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You make some good points, and I think this sounds like potentially a very nice addition the the game!

I see no problems with reviving at 2x ghost health. It forces some strategy into playing the ghost and stops sniping the newly risen for easy points. I think the machanics seems right but what would be the best amount would come only from playtesting.

As for limiting to three instead of six, ghosts already pay with their own HP so it actually would already cost them quite a bit to zap their opponents. Perhaps a limit that they can't use more than half their current HP rounded down (or they would dissolve themselves)? If they start at 10 ectoplasmic points then it limits them quite well, while allowing them to a single burst of five if that's what they want.

Speaking about extra movment on revival by discarding any cards, that sounds a bit gamey since it would be a special mechanic for only a special situation. If it works there perhaps it should apply to the entire game. Also, couldn't it speculatively contribute to the grab'n run scenario you mentioned above? Again, it might be good to playtest this and see if it makes sense in context, but I supect it might be out of place.

Same with the regaining strength idea (the special or heavy stunned). It might work, and probably a session or a few would show. Again, it is a special mechanic. Perhaps a normal stun counter would suffice? It indirectly indicates that a stunned wizard shouldn't be able to pick up treasures (bodies, or perhaps any items). Or perhaps it is actually in place to introduce a heave stun rule (say "dazed"), only there should be other causes for the effect (spells or situations) for it not to be so exceptional an event.

As for ghosts, they're preculuded from using energy cards when casting spells, but spending them for extra moves should be ok. And perhaps to phase through walls? Say a wall costs two movment points to move through. I think that would tie in nicely with the slime ability.

And if the corpse is a valid target and can be desroyed, then I demand the special rule that the Big Man can pick them up and use them as weapons, hurting both the taghet and the corpse at the same time!
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Rusty Shackelford
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The main reason for a new stun instead is because current stun doesn't really stop them from grabbing a chest...

I'm thinking just Weakened, as opposed to Stunned or Dazed. The discard to move is Essentially the same as using energy for move, as you can always discard a card for 1 movement at least (Was not sure on that my first few times, then I noticed it said that Every spell has 1 energy by default, so, 1 move)

My problem with the ghosts discarding energy for moves, etc is that it is still tapping into the magical nexus whatsit that they're supposedly locked out of while on the astral plane thingy. Very complicated, I know. But for me, it just doesn't work thematically.

3 instead of 6 is to Prevent that one off 4 or 5 spell. Not everyone will do it I know, but the point is that ghosts aren't supposed to be as strong in the material plane... Oooh, ghost on ghost combat. When fighting another ghost a ghost can use energy cards, and come to think of it, that makes sense for movement then. Yeah, screw what I said about not using for move.

Weakened is meant to stop them from doing the grab and run as easily by making them waste a round or two recharging to full strength. I could see it being used in other spells/effects/etc though, and wouldn't have a problem with it. Maybe spells like "Drain Strength" "Disease" "Plague" (Think like mass weakened spell. i.e. Gravity's power) "Weaken" etc.

I see no problem with corpse as weapon, but presuming that's there, add the corpse to an acceptable item for use with Heave, ho! If only to get more use out of that spell.

Passwall could be potential for ghosts but I think that it could be overpowered if not relegated right. Maybe something like 3 movement points and ends turn, or just all remaining movement points (can't use energy to gain movement afterward either)

Lastly, back to the corpse info. Destroying a corpse does the following: Prevents ghost resurrection (Ghost can either remain as ghost or respawn as new), removes the 1 VP from the killing player, and can in Theory be undone with certain spells/effects eventually (Not sure what they would be, but ideas to add in obviously)

Also, something I didn't throw in in the first place. A player killed not by another player finds his corpse left wherever he was killed. A player killed by himself leaves his corpse where he dies as well. No killing yourself to respawn at full health at your base. If the player who killed himself is deemed to have done it on accident, laugh heartily at the player. Elsewise, grimace angrily at the bad person.
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Rusty Shackelford
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Wiz-War: Respawn/Ghost Variant

Death and Corpses


On death you die as normal, items drop, etc. Your corpse goes to the killing player's home square. If no killing player or the killing player was yourself, it drops where you died.

Your corpse is worth 1 VP to any player but yourself and has 30 HP. If destroyed your corpse is no longer worth 1 VP. Corpses can be targeted as per normal rules, and any ongoing effects on a corpse affect anyone spawning into the corpse.

A wizard carrying a corpse moves at 1 less base move and is stunned for the duration. (Exception: Big Man, Werewolf, Slime, and Golem form are unaffected). Picking up a corpse counts the same as picking up a chest in that it normally ends turn. Spells that affect Only chests don't affect corpses.

Ghosts and Resurrection


You respawn as a ghost wizard at your home square. As a ghost you begin play with 10 AP (Astral Points). Any damage dealt to you is dealt to your AP instead. If your AP reaches 0 you lose your link to the material plane and die. You may begin life as a new wizard, as explained later, at this point.

A ghost draws 5 cards on their first turn.

As a ghost you can pass through doors and any wall with at least 1 crack and have a base move of 4. Ghosts can sacrifice ALL remaining movement to pass through a wall. They cannot discard energy for movement after doing such.

You can discard energy/spells for movement as per normal rules, but otherwise you cannot use them to power up your spells. If you wish to power up a spell you must sacrifice AP to do so. A ghost can never sacrifice more than 3 AP for a spell.

As a ghost you cannot obtain any physical items, but can create them (They just drop to the ground) with spells. If a spell requires a physical body to use it (best judgment) you cannot use it. (i.e. Ghosts cannot transform at all. Ghosts cannot carry a rock. Ghosts can create a rock.) Ghosts are not harmed by physical items/spells.

If a ghost is in the same square as his corpse he may enter it and end his turn. If done, the ghost resurrects as the wizard IN the square the corpse was in. A newly resurrected wizard starts with HP equal to 2 times AP, max of 15. The wizard is weakened for 1d2 turns and cannot pick up chests, and deals half physical damage rounded down, minimum of 1 (Before resistances/spells/etc). The current owner of a corpse (if any) loses the VP for killing the wizard if the ghost respawns.

If a ghost's corpse is destroyed, a ghost may choose to immediately respawn as a new wizard on their next turn, as per the rules, or they may stay in ghost form annoying the other wizards.

Wizards and Respawns


A player who dies as a ghost can respawn as a new wizard on their following turn. They discard their hand and draw 4 cards instead of 5 to start. A new respawn starts with -1 VP, and retains all current treasure/corpses. If a wizard dies again and respawns, they start with 3 cards instead, and gain an additional -1 VP.

Newly respawned wizards start with 15 HP. If a newly respawned wizard is able to return their old corpse to their home square they may use the remaining portion of their turn to soul link with the corpse and regain their lost VP and draw an additional card.

A wizard carrying a corpse moves at 1 less base move and is stunned for the duration. (Exception: Big Man, Werewolf, Slime, and Golem form are unaffected). Picking up a corpse counts the same as picking up a chest in that it normally ends turn. Spells that affect Only chests don't affect corpses.
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Mike Adachi
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Time to playtest! :) Let's get a session or two in and see how it works and if any tweaks are necessary!
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