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Subject: Adding custom units like modified soldiers/mutants to DT rss

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David Bernier
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Ok, that may sound weird and not faithful to Dust Lore but during lunch I went to my FLGS here in Quebec and saw that they recently received the Limited starter box of the new edition of Warhammer 40k...and pretty damn does the minis look good! I almost bought it just for the minis...

But then I talked to the dude there, a huge WH40K fan about Dust Warfare being my first minis game and how i'd like to find a way to integrate some "fantasy" in the world of Dust.

Like the Winter Child that is coming and will be the first (of many i'm sure) Superhuman of Dust Tactics/Warfare, i'd like to try and add 1 or 2 Super units to the Axis and allies...completely unique for both armies and each with a few skills that would complement and enhance each armies strengh.

For those of you that build custom units/vehicules...how do you blanace the stats for these? Do you have some kind of unit creation system to help create something that is not God-mode but would fit pretty well in the rest?

Here's some ideas I have:

AXIS: Some kind of monstrosity, half-man half machine, with walker parts attached together with his own flesh...in between the sizes of a medium walker and heavy infantry. He would use ranged attacks and maybe have an aura that would give some bonuses to adjacent units.

ALLIES: I can't thing of anything for now but don't want something too dark like a mutant or any overmodified superevil beast...maybe some kind of big dude in full armor like a Paladin style soldier like a Chaplain/Techmarine/Librarian...

SSU: With Winter Child coming, I won't had anything for now but can't wait to see the stats on this guy!
 
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Derek Anderson
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We have quite a few custom units in our dust game, as do a number of others... what I do is find an existing unit that is close to what I'm trying to make and then modify it a bit and play a game to see if they are under-powered, over-powered, etc...

So essentially just some trial and error.
 
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Martin Larouche
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I personally don't play with customs. I find I have little patience anymore to test various units to see if they are too powerful or not enough. I'd rather just play the game and trust the developers to have done the balancing part properly.

Some time ago, with different games, I did some customs. They are much easier to do if they are variation on already released minis. The danger is to come out with crazy new abilities that are hard to play test properly because the game was not designed with it in mind. For example, coming out with a new ability... like a mutant ability to absorb energy damage from lasers and phasers. While it may sound cool to some, it's awfully hard to balance it properly...

Coming with slight variation... say a new hero which has the blacks ops skill and with Angela's sniper rifle for a weapon is much easier to balance because everything already exists.
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K G
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Rhezuss wrote:
Ok, that may sound weird and not faithful to Dust Lore but during lunch I went to my FLGS here in Quebec and saw that they recently received the Limited starter box of the new edition of Warhammer 40k...and pretty damn does the minis look good! I almost bought it just for the minis...

But then I talked to the dude there, a huge WH40K fan about Dust Warfare being my first minis game and how i'd like to find a way to integrate some "fantasy" in the world of Dust.

Like the Winter Child that is coming and will be the first (of many i'm sure) Superhuman of Dust Tactics/Warfare, i'd like to try and add 1 or 2 Super units to the Axis and allies...completely unique for both armies and each with a few skills that would complement and enhance each armies strengh.

For those of you that build custom units/vehicules...how do you blanace the stats for these? Do you have some kind of unit creation system to help create something that is not God-mode but would fit pretty well in the rest?


it depends . for the most part i try to make variants of regular units , because the reality of WWII is that there were just SOOOOO many variants of all the vehicles , that we just dont have the variety yet in DT .

but i do work on some units that go well beyond just variants , into whole new areas of the game .

the problem is you are looking to ad units into a game that very much relies on a set of design formula tables for the official units creation to reach an exact points value . there is no real way to make an accurate formula to cost units , because what ever the formula is , its always going to be geared toward a pre-designed notion of importance for "X" stat or design direction .

i dont play DW , but rather DT , but i do have some preset guidelines for my unit creation that you might apply to your attempts .

first , come up with a good back ground story to explain why the unit is being made . look at WWII pulp fiction , and the game universe , and try to keep the designs and story line in tune with that , and with reasonable accuracy based on production time , and the production capacity of the time . for instance , the axis have access to vrill tech , but even knowing how something works , doesnt mean the axis have the production technology to make the equipment to actually make the component . they need a reasonable amount of trial and error . so lets take some of the more anime-ish walkers out there in the fanoshpere : they are made to fit the dust universe , but not necessarily in the 1947 time line . now look at your story , and ask OTHER people if it makes sense .

second , understand the nature of the game , and how every component reacts in it . for example in DT , having a squad of troops all armed with assault rifles with one weapons line effects the game much differently that if all the troops have individual weapons lines for EACH assault rifle . so look at the weapons you want to put on the unit , and the CONFIGURATION you have put them in . look at the ranges , and how much difference just a change of +/- 1 square can mean in game terms .

third , stat the unit out on paper , LOOK at it , and ask your self , is this to powerful ? for instance , on my allied MH7 its a good strong walker as i have designed the variants , powerful , yet not broken . to keep it faithful to the design , but not a pure god on the battle field i purposefully chose to make all the variants with one heavy weapon with a long range (10-U), and one shorter ranged heavy weapon (6 or less). i could easily break it by equipping it with say 2 17 pound cannons .

fourth , grab out your stack of unit cards , and play devils advocate , and look at the units it can mix with , can you make broken combos ? if you can , its a problem , so fix it . keep going through and tweaking until its good , but not "oh my God , there goes the game !!!!" .

fifth , is to come up with a good points value to start since you are looking to play DW , i cant really help you with that , because i dont play DW , so .......

sixth , play test the hell out of it . play several games against your friends , who are using ONLY standard official units . one tendency for players making custom units is to make something that the regular units cant handle . so if your play test games are ONLY against regular units , then you can get an idea of how the points values work out , and if its still broken in a way you didnt see earlier . play a few games with it at your starting points value , then adjust it up , play several games , adjust it down , play several games . try it in a large point game , try it in a small point game . play it aggressively , play it passively , and play it a lot . thanks to the fast and furious nature of DT , i can get in 6-10 games in a single day with a good turn out .

lastly , once you have the stats and points fixed , DONT OVER PLAY IT ! one of the things that makes a custom unit interesting , is that its uncommon , so if you play it all the time , it becomes boring , and looses its uniqueness . so play it occasional , or for special scenarios , not every game , or even every week .


Rhezuss wrote:


Here's some ideas I have:

AXIS: Some kind of monstrosity, half-man half machine, with walker parts attached together with his own flesh...in between the sizes of a medium walker and heavy infantry. He would use ranged attacks and maybe have an aura that would give some bonuses to adjacent units.



NOOOOOOOO , i was already working on something like this for my Germans .......... sort of . they will be one of my entries for the next custom unit contest .

a good japanese unit might be some sort of demon type ,released from the crack in the plantes mantle that resulted from the atomic blast , bound by sorcerous powers , and pressed into service for the emperor .

dont forget , my blog here on the geek has an post with the stats charts for weapons of various sizes and shell types , so if you want a gun on your creation , that isnt in the official game thus far , check it out . contact me if you want stats beyond those listed , i have been working on more charts , but havent typed them out yet .

Rhezuss wrote:


ALLIES: I can't thing of anything for now but don't want something too dark like a mutant or any overmodified superevil beast...maybe some kind of big dude in full armor like a Paladin style soldier like a Chaplain/Techmarine/Librarian...



this really depends on what slant you put on your allies . if you lump Canada and the US together , both would have some native indians in their forces , which might leave open the idea of some form of spirit warrior or spirit warrior commando hunting party

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David Bernier
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GrandInquisitorKris wrote:
...


Wow, thanks for the great ideas and feedback!
You gave me a effing cool idea with the native comment...

Armor3 Hero with dual axes fixed with chains on his armor that he can throw and they come back, range 2...and a shaman headdress native style!

WOW love it!
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