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Subject: Shadowrift Compiled Fan FAQ rss

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Brian M
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An attempt to compile the main rules questions into one place. I will update this as more questions come up. Please point out if there are other questions I should include.
--------------------------------------------------------

General Rules

Afflictions

Q: What if the draw deck is out of an affliction and are supposed to take one?
A: You get lucky and don't get one. But you've got an awful lot in your decks, don't you?

Cards leaving play - where do they go?

Discarded from your hand: Goes to your discard pile.

Removed from play from your hand: Place back on the pile the card came from.

Villager / Traveler / Infiltrator killed or removed from play: Place on the bottom of the Traveler deck.

Wall broken or removed from play: Place back in the wall deck.

Killed monster: Place on the bottom of the monster deck.

Corpse removed: Place back in the corpse deck.

Losing

Q: When do you lose?
A: You lose if there are no villagers, travelers or walls in play by the end of monster phase. It's ok if you don't have villagers/travelers/walls during the hero phase, but you need at least one in play to even get a hero phase.

Sequence of Play

Q: How do heroes take their turns?
A: Heroes may take actions and play cards in any order, and may intermix their actions with other player's actions. So, player 1 could play a Rousing Speech to let player 2 draw a card. Then Player 2 could play a Rousing Speech to let player 1 draw a card. Then player 1 could play the card that was just drawn.

Wounds
Q: When do you take a wound from making a melee attack.
A: Sometime during the turn. If you made any melee attacks, you must take a wound (or use an ability that cancels the wound) before the end of the turn. But you don't have to take the wound immediately after you strike.
Once you do take the wound, you can't undo that later (such as if you later draw a thieving strike).

Hero Cards - General

Attacks
Q: Can you split up damage from a single hero card to multiple monsters?
A: No. Unless the card says otherwise, all of its damage goes to the same monster.

Q: Can you play an attack card without a target?
A: No. You must have something to attack to play an attack card.

Boost Abilities
Q: How many times can you trigger each boost effect on a card?
A: Just once.

Q: Can you resolve the basic part of a hero card and THEN pay the boost?
A: Yes. For example, you can use the card drawn by the basic part of a card to trigger the boost.

Loot
Q: Can you have more than one of each Loot in play?
A: Yes, but the designer has recommened a rule that you cannot.*

*We play that you can have more than one. It gives more options, and the Armor of Mist is quite expensive anyway.

Skills
Q: Can you have more than one of each Skill in play?
A: Yes.

Q: When do you pay to keep a Skill in play?
A: At any point during the hero turn.

Hero Cards - Specific

Armor of Mist
* You only draw a card if you ACTUALLY take a wound, not if you were supposed to draw one and the wound is prevented.
* Draw 1 card every time you take a wound, not just the first time.

Bamboozle
* You only get the coin if you actually remove an infiltrator.
* Effects that prevent an infiltrator from being removed block bamboozle.

Elixir of Life
Q: Can you use the card drawing ability as many times as you can afford?
A: Technically yes, but the designer recommends playing it as only once per turn.

Fireball
* The +1 hit boost ability is also ranged damage.
* The '1 hit to all other monsters' is neither ranged nor melee damage.
* Fireball also hits Freeze cards.

Resurrect
* You may use resurrect to gain a free villager even if there are no corpses to remove from town. This can temporarily put more than 5 cards in town.

Shining Blade
* If you discard Shining Blade to add 2 damage to an attack, that attack still counts as quick.

Monster Cards - General

Q: Do monsters kill Travlers who aren't in the village yet?
A: No. Monsters only killed villagers who are actually in the village. It's a dangerous place to live!

Q: Can monsters in the Power Area be attacked?
A: No. You need to use a Seal or similar card effect to get rid of them.

Q: Do When MONSTER acts abilities take effect when the monster comes into play?
A: No, only when it moves forward.

Q: What if you run out of Freezes or Zombies?
A: As with afflictions, if you are out of these cards, ignore effects that add more. Do remember that zombies and freezes that you destroy go back in the pile though!

Hunting
Q: Do hunting monsters kill infiltrators?
A: Indeed they do! And guards will jump in the way to save infiltrators.

Rampage
Q: When does 'Rampage' take effect?
A: As soon as the Rampage triggers, move the monster off to the side; it is no longer in the monster area. At the end of phase 6, the rampaging monster returns to the start area.

Punctuation
Q: Is there a difference between monster abilities separated with commas and those seperated with periods?
A: Nope. All the listed abilities take effect.

Monster Cards - Specific

Q: Imps - does their Stage 1 ability apply to all imps, or just the triggering imps?
A: Only to the imps that actually triggered the ability.*

*We play that if applies to all imps. Consistent with the wording and makes imps a little scarier.

Shadowrifts
Q: How long does a Shadowrift stay in play?
A: Until you seal or discard it.

Village Cards - General

Q: Does removing an Infiltrator count as seeking aid for the turn?
A: No, it does not.

Q: Why do Town-Villagers have a coin at the bottom?
A: When a Villager dies, they are placed on the bottom of the Traveler deck and can come up to be hired back into the village again.

Q: Do you need to "seek aid" to take advantage of a "passive" villager action, such as the Guard or Child?
A: No. You only need to use your once per turn "seek aid" to use a villager ability on your turn. Villager abilities that normally take place out of turn are free.

Village Cards - Specific

Backstabber
Q: When does the Backstabber take effect?
A: After all of the village cards are revealed for the turn.

Robber
Q: What does the Robber make you spend 2 more coins for?
A: Only BUYING a card, not paying the Smith, Vagrant, or Rousing Speech.

UPDATES:
6/25, added questions from Max and fixed stray typos
LATEST UPDATE: 2/4/2015, clarified Rampage per the new rules.
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Patrick Hickey
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Your FAQ has killed forum activity by providing a quick way to get answers without starting a new thread. Ironic, in a weird way.
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Brian M
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Cadfan wrote:
Your FAQ has killed forum activity by providing a quick way to get answers without starting a new thread. Ironic, in a weird way.
Oops. blush
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Zachary Anderson
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Two more:

Lesser Succubus adds a cultist "in play". Given that Resurrect can increase the "town hand" (I like to think of it as a sort of square... maybe with a gazebo...) if it doesn't remove a corpse, am I correct in assuming the Lesser Succubus also increases the "town hand" for a turn?

Am I correct in assuming that if things try to kill guards, and Man-at-arms is closest to the discard, they'll try to kill him first? And that if a wall goes searching for guards, he's one of the people who can man the walls?
 
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Jeremy Anderson
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Correct on all counts.

Luckily for Master-at-Arms - Not to be confused with He-Man character Man-at-Arms - if there are any other Guards in play they'll default to jumping in his way. And then he'll try to make sure the rookie doesn't die.
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Jason Bagley
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One big one I've had troubles understanding is the moat which says, "When a monster attempts an action other than Kill, discard the top card of the town deck. If it is a Wall or a Guard, stop the monster's action." Does this include the "break a wall" action from a monster? Although, I realize that if the monster is not worth two or more heroism, he can't break any walls in the town for that round, I still wonder if this ability works for the Break Wall action.

Another question I have is the Seal card. "You may put a card from the monster power area on the bottom of the monster deck." I've heard someone say that you can seal away monsters that are in play but not in the monster power area (actually they said they were sealing other things in the thread), and I wondered if that was true.

Second, with the Power cards that have an "activate power", does that activate as soon as it would "start" or does it have to go through the whole progression and get past the "1" to activate? It doesn't seem to specify anywhere what really happens with those power cards. When I played, I moved it immediately to the monster power area, and then sealed it when I had the chance. But if it goes through several action phases before it activates, then I'm wondering how it's possible to Seal it according to that post.

All the help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Brian M
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Jason - well my answer isn't official by any means, but here's my take on it:

A moat can attempt to block a "Break Wall" action - it's not a kill!

Are there monsters worth only 1 heroism that have a "Break Wall" action? If there are, I would guess they are meant to break the wall, since otherwise it's meaningless. But taking it as written, a heroism 1 monster would NOT break a wall, even with a break wall action!

The "monster power area" is a special area off to the side. The only things that go there are:
1) Monster power cards.
2) Shadowrift cards.
3) Monsters that go all the way through steps 1,2 and 3 and leave the town.

Monster power cards and Shadowrifts do go immediately to the Monster Power area. They do not go through the 1,2,3 track.

You can only seal a card in that monster power area.

Monster powers with an 'activate' power only active that ability when certain monsters take actions. Those monsters will say "activate power".

It has already been noted how that makes powers fairly unlikely to activate.

Hope that helps!
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Jason Bagley
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Yes, tremendously. However, since I posted this I scoured every post I could find that I thought would be helpful.

I don't know if there are monsters worth only 1 heroism that break walls as an action, but while I saw the text on only the moat (didn't realize it was on all wall cards at the time--especially since this rule is NEVER mentioned in the rule book), I assumed it needed to be in play for that effect to take place, not that it worked even if a monster was hunting. THAT was a big change in understanding.

I knew the power cards went immediately to the monster power area. I was activating them immediately--I thought that's what they did. Then it just sat there for however many turns until we got rid of it. In my first game, we never saw any monsters that had the "Activate Powers" card, or else it might have made more sense.
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Jeremy Anderson
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retupmoc258 wrote:
Yes, tremendously. However, since I posted this I scoured every post I could find that I thought would be helpful.

I don't know if there are monsters worth only 1 heroism that break walls as an action, but while I saw the text on only the moat (didn't realize it was on all wall cards at the time--especially since this rule is NEVER mentioned in the rule book), I assumed it needed to be in play for that effect to take place, not that it worked even if a monster was hunting. THAT was a big change in understanding.

I knew the power cards went immediately to the monster power area. I was activating them immediately--I thought that's what they did. Then it just sat there for however many turns until we got rid of it. In my first game, we never saw any monsters that had the "Activate Powers" card, or else it might have made more sense.

It's rules like this that make it hard for me to stand up for myself when people say my rulebook is bad.
See, I wrote the rules on the idea that players would respond to rules I fed them as if they were computers; They'd never assume anything that wasn't explicitly stated. This...isn't true of humans, in general. Also, I wrote some portions of my rules like a logic puzzle, leaving readers to work out implications of certain rules based on the limited info I fed them.

So for instance, I said monsters search until they find a Villager/Wall when hunting, kill a Villager if that's what they find, or break a Wall if they've got a heroism value of 2+ and a Wall's what they find. First of all, some people assumed if they found a Wall and weren't big enough to break it they'd keep looking. That's on me for assuming people wouldn't invent their own conclusions. Second, you'll note that nowhere in that description do I say explicitly that the monster's just blocked and the hunt ends without effect, if the monster isn't big enough to break the wall. I just expect you to tease that out.

So yeah. Fellow game designers, listen up: That kind of internal implication is good in the structure and design of a game. Having effects that imply other effects is one of the things that makes elegant design. Once you're writing your rules, though: BE EXPLICIT. Don't imply anything; SAY it. You aren't going for "elegant" with your rulebook. Nobody's going to praise you for cutting a paragraph out and replacing it with a sentence that says the core of the paragraph and implies the rest. Instead, people will say your rulebook is a piece of crap, because you're expecting your readers to infer rules you could have actually told them.
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Jason Bagley
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I agree, but also disagree with this. If you've ever read through Dominion's rules, it's simple enough to cover basically two pages of printed material. In those two pages are everything I ever needed to know about the base game. There's a lot of intricate details, but there's only a few things they needed to spell out. It becomes clear from there. Granted, they do have a bit of explanation in that rulebook as to what certain basic things are happening (+1 card means draw one card from your deck, +1 buy means you may purchase one more thing and your total purchase cost cannot exceed the amount you have, etc.), and I can even predict what is happening on new cards pretty easily just knowing the central mechanic and conceptual design of the original game.

Or course, Dominion also has card-by-card details for the obvious problems encountered, and also clarifies anything else that is confusing. The wording is chosen throughout to make it very simple. If they refer to one thing, they use that name, and one type by that type name (the multiple-type cards confuse some, but I found this amazing when I could discard a Victory-Treasure card and get two effects on some cards)

Although, Dominion is designed to be a lot simpler altogether, and there are fewer rules altogether. But I believe your rulebook could be simple (maybe not as short) and as thorough with just some simple modification. Of course, I've never tried to design such a rulebook, so I guess that's only my opinion.
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Fletcher C.
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The FAQ needs updating. The errata Jeremy published now says that boost abilities must be paid for when playing the card.

Quote:
When you play an Action, you must pay any Boosts before resolving any of the Action's effects. For instance, you can't draw the card from Prophecy and use that as the magic to boost Prophecy.

Also I'd love to see some clarifications on wall rules.

Have you guys considered putting this up as a file instead of in the forums?
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Konstantinos Thoukydidis
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karishi wrote:
retupmoc258 wrote:
Yes, tremendously. However, since I posted this I scoured every post I could find that I thought would be helpful.

I don't know if there are monsters worth only 1 heroism that break walls as an action, but while I saw the text on only the moat (didn't realize it was on all wall cards at the time--especially since this rule is NEVER mentioned in the rule book), I assumed it needed to be in play for that effect to take place, not that it worked even if a monster was hunting. THAT was a big change in understanding.

I knew the power cards went immediately to the monster power area. I was activating them immediately--I thought that's what they did. Then it just sat there for however many turns until we got rid of it. In my first game, we never saw any monsters that had the "Activate Powers" card, or else it might have made more sense.

It's rules like this that make it hard for me to stand up for myself when people say my rulebook is bad.
See, I wrote the rules on the idea that players would respond to rules I fed them as if they were computers; They'd never assume anything that wasn't explicitly stated. This...isn't true of humans, in general. Also, I wrote some portions of my rules like a logic puzzle, leaving readers to work out implications of certain rules based on the limited info I fed them.

So for instance, I said monsters search until they find a Villager/Wall when hunting, kill a Villager if that's what they find, or break a Wall if they've got a heroism value of 2+ and a Wall's what they find. First of all, some people assumed if they found a Wall and weren't big enough to break it they'd keep looking. That's on me for assuming people wouldn't invent their own conclusions. Second, you'll note that nowhere in that description do I say explicitly that the monster's just blocked and the hunt ends without effect, if the monster isn't big enough to break the wall. I just expect you to tease that out.

So yeah. Fellow game designers, listen up: That kind of internal implication is good in the structure and design of a game. Having effects that imply other effects is one of the things that makes elegant design. Once you're writing your rules, though: BE EXPLICIT. Don't imply anything; SAY it. You aren't going for "elegant" with your rulebook. Nobody's going to praise you for cutting a paragraph out and replacing it with a sentence that says the core of the paragraph and implies the rest. Instead, people will say your rulebook is a piece of crap, because you're expecting your readers to infer rules you could have actually told them.

This part is actually so important in playing the game that it needs to be in its own little thread! I didn't know about this until now. Where before walls seemed kind of nice but far too expensive for their abilities, now they become extremely useful to prevent kills.

Follow-up question (I don't remember if the rulebook mentions it and it's not in front of me): If a monster with a "break a wall" action goes hunting. Does it look for walls explicitly or does it hunt normally? I.e? Does it kill the first villager it find and aborts at a wall (if it's not a heroism 2+ monster), or does it destroy the first wall it finds and aborts at the first villager? Or does it destroy both walls and villagers in its hunt?

Also one more question

Quote:
Rampage
Q: When does 'Rampage' take effect?
A: As soon as the Rampage triggers, the monster moves back to the start position.

Given that position 2 acts before the start position: Does that mean that the monster will immediately move to position 1 once it's the "start position" time to act, in the same turn it rampaged? I.e. does it in effect act twice in a turn? I would assume not.
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Bart H
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Simple question: Is the resource that a "Might" card provides equal to the resource that a "Prowess" card provides? (i.e. for buying skills, villagers, etc.)

- Edit: I already found the answer by Jeremy here. Answer is "yes" for those wondering
 
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Jason Bagley
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DbZer0 wrote:
Follow-up question (I don't remember if the rulebook mentions it and it's not in front of me): If a monster with a "break a wall" action goes hunting. Does it look for walls explicitly or does it hunt normally? I.e? Does it kill the first villager it find and aborts at a wall (if it's not a heroism 2+ monster), or does it destroy the first wall it finds and aborts at the first villager? Or does it destroy both walls and villagers in its hunt?

In answer to this question, according to the rulebook the monster will hunt if it doesn't find its target (be it for finding a wall in the town or the named villager). To hunt means to go searching through the deck until you come across a townsperson or villager--there is no distinction between what causes the "hunt". As soon as one is found, the monsters kills him/her if its a townsperson, and if it's a wall, if it is level 2 or higher, it destroys it.


DbZer0 wrote:
Also one more question

Quote:
Rampage
Q: When does 'Rampage' take effect?
A: As soon as the Rampage triggers, the monster moves back to the start position.

Given that position 2 acts before the start position: Does that mean that the monster will immediately move to position 1 once it's the "start position" time to act, in the same turn it rampaged? I.e. does it in effect act twice in a turn? I would assume not.

I am pretty sure you are correct. So far as I understand, the monster moves back to the start position, but each monster only acts once, so the second time it arrives at the monster, nothing happens. This also means they will be the first to act when the next round starts because all new monsters will arrive at the start position after him.

Of course the better solution to this problem is to kill him before he gets to stage 3
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Lina Wrang
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It actually says in the rulebook (page 4) that when a monster rampages, you set it aside until step 6: Add New Monsters is finished and THEN you place it in the start position. So no, it wouldn't move to position 1 this round, and it would, on the next round, in fact act AFTER the other monsters added this round.
 
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MAX VIGNE
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Please help with a couple of clarifications:

1) When a monster leaves town it goes into the monster power area. Is it still considered to be in play? Can it still be a target of an attack? I would say yes to both so that the amount of power can be brought back under control, but I'm not sure.

2) When a shadowrift leaves town does it go into the monster power area or back unde the monster deck? We've been putting it back under the deck.

3)If the special monster cards (like the freeze or zombies) run out are effects that would add more ignored?

Thanks for the help, really enjoying this game (even my wife plays this).
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Brian M
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maxvigne wrote:
Please help with a couple of clarifications:

1) When a monster leaves town it goes into the monster power area. Is it still considered to be in play? Can it still be a target of an attack? I would say yes to both so that the amount of power can be brought back under control, but I'm not sure.
A monster that goes to the power area no longer counts as a monster and cannot be attacked. You can get rid of it with any cards that remove a card from the monster power area, like a Seal.

Quote:
2) When a shadowrift leaves town does it go into the monster power area or back unde the monster deck? We've been putting it back under the deck.
A Shadowrift comes into play in the monster power area and stays there until you get rid of it; either discarding it (as above), or sealing it permanently with a powered-up Seal card. So, the good news it will stay around until you can seal it. The bad news is that it will give the monsters +1 power each turn until you get rid of it!

Quote:
3)If the special monster cards (like the freeze or zombies) run out are effects that would add more ignored?

Yes, you just ignore the effects that would add more. Of course, if you've got all the freezes or zombies out, things are likely going badly for you anyway.
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MAX VIGNE
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Thanks so much for the rules help, I think it's going to make a big difference in how hard the game is!

Now that I understand the monster power area a whole lot better I have a question about Powers cards in the monsters deck. Do these act like "unkillable" monsters in that they will travel from start to 3, during which time they cannot be affected by the players, and then into the monster power area where the players can finally remove them using a Seal for example?
 
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Tony Fanchi
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maxvigne wrote:
Thanks so much for the rules help, I think it's going to make a big difference in how hard the game is!

Now that I understand the monster power area a whole lot better I have a question about Powers cards in the monsters deck. Do these act like "unkillable" monsters in that they will travel from start to 3, during which time they cannot be affected by the players, and then into the monster power area where the players can finally remove them using a Seal for example?
Monster power cards and shadowrifts go directly to the monster power area and begin adding to monster power the next turn (because at the point when they come out, monster power has already been generated for the current turn).
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Feynt Mistral
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I have a few questions myself.

1. Since coins can be traded to others, we've been treating the coin pay of heroism like that as well. Is this correct?

2. Holy Aura prevents a wound, cool. But if you have say, 4 Strikes in your hand and use 3 to hit one monster, then the last to hit another, does that still apply?

3. For that matter can you even strike two or more monsters, since they are quick actions?

4. Is it possible for one player to buy, attack, and make use of villagers on the same turn? The rules don't specify, but a question raised elsewhere has me wondering.
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Daniel Reece
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No - Heroism coin value cannot be traded between players. Only actual coins. (Which cost 2 prowess each).

There are two ways to play wounds from monster hits:

a) (Official) You only take one wound from melee against
monsters per turn, if you stop that one wound via Holy Aura or
convert it to gold via Thieving strike then you can do as
many additional strikes as you want w/o taking more hits.

b) (Harder Varient) You can only take one wound from each
monster you hit. So if you stop hits coming from the first
strike on a monster you can hit that same monster more
times w/o taking a wound.

Yes - Strike is a quick action so you can lay about you
whacking the beasts in great profusion. How much this hurts you
depends on how you are playing the wounds from melee rule.

Buying and using villagers are not actions, so you can do them
freely in addition to your one action.
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Carlos Sempere
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I'm new the game and might be getting things wrong here, especially the terminology (it wasn't my copy so I never read the rules) but I want to know if guards MUST sacrifice themselves.

Our revealed villagers were four corpses and a guard. If we could make it to the hero phase we'd win by sealing the last shadowrift. But during the monster phase, a monster phase sifted through the town deck looking to kill a certain villager. It found a villager to kill, at which point the guard in play was probably supposed to get himself killed instead. That would've left us with four corpses in play, and a game loss (I think).

Did we have a choice to hold the guard back?
 
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Brian M
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Quote:
Did we have a choice to hold the guard back?
I'll have to track down the source, but I can tell you the answer - no, you did not have a choice. Those dang redshirts noble guards will selflessly throw themselves in the way every time they get the chance. They'll even protect an infiltrator from getting killed!
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Paul Cockburn
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carlisimo wrote:
That would've left us with four corpses in play, and a game loss (I think).

You don't lose the game due to villagers being killed during the "Monsters in Play Act" phase. You only lose the game if, during the "Refresh Town" phase, your five town spaces are filled with only corpses, infiltrators or hazards.
 
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Tony Fanchi
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mathmethman wrote:
You don't lose the game due to villagers being killed during the "Monsters in Play Act" phase. You only lose the game if, during the "Refresh Town" phase, your five town spaces are filled with only corpses, infiltrators or hazards.
This is incorrect. You lose if the town has no walls or villagers at any point before the hero turn starts. From the rulebook (p. 1):

Quote:
If your Town contains no Walls or Villagers at the start of your turn, you lose.
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