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Subject: Digital subforum here on BGG? rss

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As of current, electronic versions of board games either go onto a supposedly corresponding entry on VGG, or stay on BGG (indicating that the thread's about such an implementation with "tags" like "iOS Carcassonne"), perhaps to be whisked over to VGG at some point in the future.

The admins seem to wanna drive more traffic to VGG. I can't say I blame them, as it's something they worked hard on I'm sure. However, people who discuss board games come to BGG b/c it's a 1-stop shop for all that (in a way, it feels like BGG is a "victim of its own success"... why would you ever leave BGG laugh ). I'm under the impression that people who go to VGG are seeking info on ACTUAL video games, like Halo Reach, Call Of Duty, Starcraft 2, New Super Mario Brothers Wii, etc. It just seems clumsy and inelegant to separate the 2 like that. I thought up of adding a subforum to each game to help separate digital (probably end up being mostly iOS) games of board games to try to keep the best of both worlds. People who don't care about digital can ignore that subforum. Those who do can still find that info on BGG

As many are aware, we already have the following subforums:
reviews
Sessions
general
rules
Strategy
variants
News

I hear "Play By Forum" was added to help keep rules questions separate when users were doing searches for rules and ended up getting PBF hits irrelevant to them. The new PBF section ended up being a great addition.

Any comments on adding "Digital"?

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/9985505#9985505
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It won't be on BGG, but hosted on VGG - we will add links to make the forums visible from the BGG side. But the forums will be stored on the VGG entries.

Despite claims to the contrary, I don't care about driving traffic to VGG - really, I don't.
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So out of curiosity, how are digital games going to be handled on VGG?

For example, take Lost Cities. The current VGG entry is for Lost Cities for XBOX 360. But there is Lost Cities for Facebook, Lost Cities for iOS, and probably a dozen others I don't even know about.

Do they all get their own entries, since they are all different implementations? Or do they all go in one place?

I'm just curious because it seems like a royal pain no matter how you do it.
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seqiro wrote:
So out of curiosity, how are digital games going to be handled on VGG?

For example, take Lost Cities. The current VGG entry is for Lost Cities for XBOX 360. But there is Lost Cities for Facebook, Lost Cities for iOS, and probably a dozen others I don't even know about.

Do they all get their own entries, since they are all different implementations? Or do they all go in one place?


Logically, those would be versions. So, one entry on VGG, with a version for FB, iOS etc. All discussion would take place in one spot, but folks could add different versions to their collection.
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
Logically, those would be versions. So, one entry on VGG, with a version for FB, iOS etc. All discussion would take place in one spot, but folks could add different versions to their collection.


I don't know that logic fits in to this scenario so much because as I see it, logically they are all versions of Lost Cities the card game and should be here on BGG.

If I only play Lost Cities on iOS because I don't own the physical card game, does what I have to say not matter on BGG?

Also, why is the iOS Board Game blog here on BGG and not on VGG? Shouldn't it be moved there for consistency?
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seqiro wrote:
If I only play Lost Cities on iOS because I don't own the physical card game, does what I have to say not matter on BGG?

If what you say is about Game Center, bugs, achievements, IAP etc, then it is only relevant to people who have the digital version. If it's something like a rules question or strategy article then it's relevant to BGG.
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ADMIN WITH ROMAN NAME: THIS THREAD DOES NOT BELONG IN BGG, AS IT IS CLEARLY ABOUT VIDEO GAMES, THEREFORE THIS WILL BE MOVED TO VGG. DO NOT QUESTION OUR DIVISIONS!sauron
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seqiro wrote:
Also, why is the iOS Board Game blog here on BGG and not on VGG? Shouldn't it be moved there for consistency?


Imagine you wrote a popular blog, and then your editor/site owner told you your blog was being moved to a less popular site owned by them so they could drive traffic to it. You'd be apoplectic.

Edited to reflect previous comments by people.
 
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QuintMorrison wrote:
seqiro wrote:
Also, why is the iOS Board Game blog here on BGG and not on VGG? Shouldn't it be moved there for consistency?


Imagine you wrote a popular blog, and then your editor/site owner told you your blog was being moved to a less popular site owned by them so they could drive traffic to it. You'd be apoplectic.

Edited to reflect previous comments by people.


I think the point is that it's an arbitrary distinction. The powers that be have arbitrarily decided that all discussion of digital board games should occur on VGG. Of course, that is at odds with how we're already using BGG, but that's not something I want to get into now. And the arbitrary distinction that was chosen is applied inconsistently. I think it's a completely legitimate question. Forum discussion must take place on VGG, but it's ok if popular digital game news blogs are here?
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
seqiro wrote:
So out of curiosity, how are digital games going to be handled on VGG?

For example, take Lost Cities. The current VGG entry is for Lost Cities for XBOX 360. But there is Lost Cities for Facebook, Lost Cities for iOS, and probably a dozen others I don't even know about.

Do they all get their own entries, since they are all different implementations? Or do they all go in one place?


Logically, those would be versions. So, one entry on VGG, with a version for FB, iOS etc. All discussion would take place in one spot, but folks could add different versions to their collection.

But probably the only discussion all those different versions would have in common is discussion which relates to the game itself . . . . and THAT discussion should be on BGG!
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vantageGT wrote:
Forum discussion must take place on VGG, but it's ok if popular digital game news blogs are here?
From what I was told, iOS blogs of iOS games will continue to be on BGG b/c and I paraphrase "that's where they're expected to be".
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Erik17 wrote:
But probably the only discussion all those different versions would have in common is discussion which relates to the game itself . . . . and THAT discussion should be on BGG!


Hardly. Here's the current page of topics in General on Le Havre:

What are the wooden farmer tokens for?
STOP. DO NOT POST ABOUT THE IOS VERSION HERE. THIS MEANS YOU.
Use Remobo to play Le Havre online for free
le havre solo play 550 points
Some observations playing as a 2 player game
If I like The Castles of Burgundy, will I like Le havre ? (2 players)
If I love Agricola would I like Le Havre?
Long Le Havre article
Where to buy Australian Edition online?
PERFECT goods tiles storage!

There's two or three out of 10 that would be relevant to a video user. Assuming the video versions implement the solo rules and 2 player rules.

As said above, there are a ton of things that video versions discuss that have nothing to do with the board version, logging in, achievements, in app purchases, sensitivity of touch screens, slow updating, long AI turns, retina graphics, finding friends on game centres, etc. And vice versa, as those topics show.

Separating them is the best of both worlds. It allows following both for those who want, and enables those who only want to follow one or the other to do so.

Combined, you only satisfy the small subset of folks who want to follow both, and annoy those who want to follow just one.
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
Erik17 wrote:
But probably the only discussion all those different versions would have in common is discussion which relates to the game itself . . . . and THAT discussion should be on BGG!


Hardly. Here's the current page of topics in General on Le Havre:

What are the wooden farmer tokens for?
STOP. DO NOT POST ABOUT THE IOS VERSION HERE. THIS MEANS YOU.
Use Remobo to play Le Havre online for free
le havre solo play 550 points
Some observations playing as a 2 player game
If I like The Castles of Burgundy, will I like Le havre ? (2 players)
If I love Agricola would I like Le Havre?
Long Le Havre article
Where to buy Australian Edition online?
PERFECT goods tiles storage!

There's two or three out of 10 that would be relevant to a video user. Assuming the video versions implement the solo rules and 2 player rules.

As said above, there are a ton of things that video versions discuss that have nothing to do with the board version, logging in, achievements, in app purchases, sensitivity of touch screens, slow updating, long AI turns, retina graphics, finding friends on game centres, etc. And vice versa, as those topics show.

Separating them is the best of both worlds. It allows following both for those who want, and enables those who only want to follow one or the other to do so.

Combined, you only satisfy the small subset of folks who want to follow both, and annoy those who want to follow just one.
People could start complaining I don't want to read about other games (of which worth noting, when asking about multiple games, there is the Recommendations forum in General); sleeving the game; storage solutions; pimping their sets; fan fiction of the characters; pop culture references from TV shows/movies; etc.
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
Erik17 wrote:
But probably the only discussion all those different versions would have in common is discussion which relates to the game itself . . . . and THAT discussion should be on BGG!


Hardly. Here's the current page of topics in General on Le Havre:

What are the wooden farmer tokens for?
STOP. DO NOT POST ABOUT THE IOS VERSION HERE. THIS MEANS YOU.
Use Remobo to play Le Havre online for free
le havre solo play 550 points
Some observations playing as a 2 player game
If I like The Castles of Burgundy, will I like Le havre ? (2 players)
If I love Agricola would I like Le Havre?
Long Le Havre article
Where to buy Australian Edition online?
PERFECT goods tiles storage!

There's two or three out of 10 that would be relevant to a video user. Assuming the video versions implement the solo rules and 2 player rules.

As said above, there are a ton of things that video versions discuss that have nothing to do with the board version, logging in, achievements, in app purchases, sensitivity of touch screens, slow updating, long AI turns, retina graphics, finding friends on game centres, etc. And vice versa, as those topics show.

Separating them is the best of both worlds. It allows following both for those who want, and enables those who only want to follow one or the other to do so.

Combined, you only satisfy the small subset of folks who want to follow both, and annoy those who want to follow just one.

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.

My point is, in general, an iOS Lost Cities player would have more discussion in common with a player of the Lost Cities board game than a XBox Lost Cities player. So I don't see why you'd want to lump them all together if you aren't lumping them in with the board game versions.

Further, the only discussions that I can think of that the iOS and XBox players would have in common (assuming they have different achievements) are discussion about the game play itself -- and those discussions are directly relevant to what's going on on BGG.
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ackmondual wrote:
People could start complaining I don't want to read about other games (of which worth noting, when asking about multiple games, there is the Recommendations forum in General); sleeving the game; storage solutions; pimping their sets; fan fiction of the characters; pop culture references from TV shows/movies; etc.


Of course there are always some folks not interested in any given topic on a game. But many will be, and theoretically every topic could apply to 100% of the user base.

And that's the difference. We're talking about topics that literally have zero application to a digital user. There's not going to be a single person in the world interested about sleeving their digital version of Lost Cities. Or finding the perfect goods tile storage for online Le Havre.

The standard isn't "Might someone be interested in this?" Otherwise, we could post about Advanced Squad Leader in the Monopoly area, because hey, someone might be interested in both.
 
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
The standard isn't "Might someone be interested in this?" Otherwise, we could post about Advanced Squad Leader in the Monopoly area, because hey, someone might be interested in both.


Ok I was going to just bow out of all these arguments, because BGG isn't my website and since I don't tell my friends how to decorate their apartments, I'll let the owners of the site do whatever they want here and live with it regardless of whether I think it makes sense and is consistent.

But that last paragraph is just a fallacy. Sleeving cards, digital versions, storage etc. all have to do with different aspects of the same thing: the game in question. One person sleeves his cards, one person stores their Dominion decks in custom built boxes, another plays only online. They are obviously connected by the game itself and some topics will interest one group and some will interest another. That's why there are sub-forums.

There is no obvious connection between ASL and Monopoly other than being boardgames.

Saying that making a sub-forum for a digital version is the equivalent of posting about ASL in Monopoly is simply untrue. Remember, OP asked about creating a sub-forum.
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:


Of course there are always some folks not interested in any given topic on a game. But many will be, and theoretically every topic could apply to 100% of the user base.

And that's the difference. We're talking about topics that literally have zero application to a digital user. There's not going to be a single person in the world interested about sleeving their digital version of Lost Cities. Or finding the perfect goods tile storage for online Le Havre.

That's not how I was separating the topics... in my post above, I'm saying you'll have a person who doesn't have digital versions of board games, nor any interest in them otherwise. The same person will also have no interest on topics about sleeving cards, how another episode of Big Bang Theory made another reference to the game, comparisons of custom frames, or the pasted on theme derives from the works of [famous literary works A] or [fantasy novel B].

Are we to open up subforums called...
sleeves
pop-culture
accessories
back-theme discussions

... to better separate everything out? Just how "general" is "general" supposed to be?
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In my opinion, creating this level of fragmentation will make the site more difficult to navigate, ultimately rendering it less valuable, specially for the more casual users. But, hey, what do I know ! whistle

News that, at least, there is going to be a more formal link between physical and digital editions of a boardgame are welcome and might be all we need here, we will have to wait and see.

The question I still have is, if the drive is not to increase traffic to VGG, then what is it ?
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Aldie wrote:
Despite claims to the contrary, I don't care about driving traffic to VGG - really, I don't.
I meant to ask... then why did folks even bothered with VGG in the first place?
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teg2 wrote:


The question I still have is, if the drive is not to increase traffic to VGG, then what is it ?


To protect the integrity of the medium. This site isn't about games, it's about the medium of board gaming.

The medium is the message - Marshall McLuhan
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MWChapel wrote:
teg2 wrote:


The question I still have is, if the drive is not to increase traffic to VGG, then what is it ?


To protect the integrity of the medium. This site isn't about games, it's about the medium of board gaming.

The medium is the message - Marshall McLuhan
Then iOS and Android games about board games, spinoffs, or actual video games should also be moved to VGG, as opposed to continue being posted here on BGG.
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MWChapel wrote:
teg2 wrote:


The question I still have is, if the drive is not to increase traffic to VGG, then what is it ?


To protect the integrity of the medium. This site isn't about games, it's about the medium of board gaming.

The medium is the message - Marshall McLuhan


But if the main objection is that players of the physical board game are uninterested in seeing posts about iOS or other digital platforms, but at the same time there's going to be some sort of 'linking' between them anyway, it seems at cross purposes. Because if you link the entries for ease of people who want to see both types of discussions in the same place, you'll annoy those who DON'T want to see discussion on the digital versions.

I think a 'digital' subforum on the game's entry here on BGG (that should be linked over to the game's entry on VGG) is the way to go. And also the ability, here on BGG, to mark ownership as 'digital'. I am absolutely NEVER going to go to VGG to have discussions or mark things as owned. I don't want to do it, and I won't. But I still want to talk about iOS here. And I think others do too. Fighting against the convergence of the physical and digital mediums is a losing proposition.
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cannoneer wrote:


I think a 'digital' subforum on the game's entry here on BGG (that should be linked over to the game's entry on VGG) is the way to go. And also the ability, here on BGG, to mark ownership as 'digital'. I am absolutely NEVER going to go to VGG to have discussions or mark things as owned. I don't want to do it, and I won't. But I still want to talk about iOS here. And I think others do too. Fighting against the convergence of the physical and digital mediums is a losing proposition.


I love talking about other topics too like comics, movies, music, books, role playing games, video games occasion, and they all go to...chit chat, or RSP. We already have an off topic forum.
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MWChapel wrote:
cannoneer wrote:


I think a 'digital' subforum on the game's entry here on BGG (that should be linked over to the game's entry on VGG) is the way to go. And also the ability, here on BGG, to mark ownership as 'digital'. I am absolutely NEVER going to go to VGG to have discussions or mark things as owned. I don't want to do it, and I won't. But I still want to talk about iOS here. And I think others do too. Fighting against the convergence of the physical and digital mediums is a losing proposition.


I love talking about other topics too like comics, movies, music, books, role playing games, video games occasion, and they all go to...chit chat, or RSP. We already have an off topic forum.


Please. Discussing an iOS or Xbox implementation of a board game is hardly equivalent to talking about the latest Hunger Games movie or comic books. Don't falsely equate the two.
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cannoneer wrote:


Please. Discussing an iOS or Xbox implementation of a board game is hardly equivalent to talking about the latest Hunger Games movie or comic books. Don't falsely equate the two.


In your opinion. I'm my opinion, there is no such thing as an iOS implementation of a "board game". There is a video game version of a game. And this site isn't about games, it's about board games, everything else is off topic, and thus that is where that talk is relegated.
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