Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
24 Posts

Glory to Rome» Forums » General

Subject: How many games before you "get it"? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Paul Glickman
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
designer
It says in the rulebook to play a game or two with the basic, no-card-text version, and I wholly support that.

It's an incredibly cognitive game, and being able to play the basic actions right is hard enough without trying to build combos.

It all depends on the person, though, in my experience. I'm a decent board gamer, but for some reason Glory to Rome and I just *clicked*. A lot of my group has been still catching up, though, so it can easily take as many as 5+ games before things make sense.

From what I've seen, first everyone works out how to build buildings. Then someone figures out how to Merchant. Then people start finding combos, and it appears that most people develop a signature combo that they fall in love with.

Don't fall into that trap. Look at your hand, find the combo that you have access to already.

Honestly, from what I've heard and experienced, 2P is not the ideal for this game. It's built for interactions between 3-5 people, and you can tell while playing. Get a third
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bewl Bewl
United Kingdom
Leeds
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I only ever play this 2 player and have 20+ games under my belt. There is no 'set' strategy to this game or favourable opening moves because it is so changeable. the only constant that we have seen is that it is favourable to get craftsman clients over others.

I have used the merchant to great effect a few times but again it is dependent on the cards drawn. My friend and main opponent favours a legionary tactic.

Hope this helps, its a fantastic game and you've inspired me to take it to game night today.

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Paul G wrote:
It says in the rulebook to play a game or two with the basic, no-card-text version, and I wholly support that.


I'm not sure I do. If folks are used to games and having to cope with three dozen different cards (or thereabouts) skipping this avoids the risk of them deciding the game is simply very tedious.

B>
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Luis Olcese
Argentina
Córdoba
Córdoba
flag msg tools
admin
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There are several subtle and not obvious ways of using some cards, you need to play several games and be creative. I agree that you can't prepare a detailed strategy, a simple legionary can ruin all your plans.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fernando Robert Yu
Philippines
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
lolcese wrote:
There are several subtle and not obvious ways of using some cards, you need to play several games and be creative. I agree that you can't prepare a detailed strategy, a simple legionary can ruin all your plans.


I have played just 2 games, but started with the full game in both. I got it after 1 play, but this is because I have done my homework with the rulebook plus other resources on BGG, and also have played other genres of games including boardgames, including San Juan.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Erwin Lau
Hong Kong
Hong Kong
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would say at least ten games before one can play fairly competitively.

In the first game, play without building functions, as suggested.

In the next couple of games, start to appreciate the card flow in the game. e.g keep/thinker a brown/jack or brown/patron to wait for your right-hand-side player to lead with craftsman such that you can follow and then patron a craftsman in your next lead; know when to draw a jack or from deck etc.

With around 5 more games you can appreciate the building functions and how to counter with your own buildings etc.

At this point, one can say he knows the game.

Yet more games are needed to start appreciate building combos and counters.

Hope this help.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua Wright
United States
Clawson
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Btw, have fun with Combat Commander. That game is all kinds of fun.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sean
United States
Mill Creek
Washington
flag msg tools
"Recetivism"
badge
RePEAT O-ffender!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have taught GtR to new players in the double digits. 3 games to "get it." A few more to play competitively. Never will it be mastered.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Stewart
United States
Visalia
California
flag msg tools
badge
It's sooo Hot out here...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Harrelson wrote:
I have taught GtR to new players in the double digits. 3 games to "get it." A few more to play competitively. Never will it be mastered.


Yeah...3 games to really see the variation in the buildings and how fast/prolonged the game can be.

I only play with 4+ players, so I don't know how it plays with less.

Each game is different in te buildings you have the opportunity to build.

When in doubt, toss a rubble/wood building out there. If anything, just to gain 1 VP... most games go to about 12-16VP...so each point helps.

Both the Craftman and Merchant strategies are beatable...Craftsman a little harder, especially if he has the Legionnaire wall built to defend against the LEGIONNAIRE action.

Great game...don't give it up...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oliver Paul
Iceland
Reykjavik
None
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thebaraddur wrote:
Btw, have fun with Combat Commander. That game is all kinds of fun.


Second.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It was 75% through my first game before I got 95% of the basic mechanics. I have played Race For the Galaxy before. Probably also Puerto Rico, but probably NOT San juan. I got many of the building powers, but some of the more complex ones I skipped over, just b/c I was still taking everything in. It won't be 4 games later that I learned what most ofthe other buildings do, and another 5 games for the remaining minority.

2p games become more strategic, although you still need to adapt to what your opponent does, and what cards you get. 5p games aren't too bad either, but wiht fewer turns, there's more emphasis on clients


** another example is when learning Agricola, I didn't bother with sowing and baking bread until 5 games in.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sean
United States
Mill Creek
Washington
flag msg tools
"Recetivism"
badge
RePEAT O-ffender!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ackmondual wrote:
2p games become more strategic, although you still need to adapt to what your opponent does, and what cards you get. 5p games aren't too bad either, but wiht fewer turns, there's more emphasis on clients


About 50% of my plays have been 2pl. And I've found that 2pl games are a lot more likely to end in someone building a Forum. Which means that certain strategies and counter-strategies tend to emerge (Colosseum, countered by a Palisade, Aqueduct, etc.). With more players, winning-by-Forum is more difficult and the game seems to end more often by depleted sites.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Flood
United States
Richmond
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It took us a game or two to fully grasp everything at play in the game, but our understanding of the game continues to evolve even after a couple dozen plays. The pace really depends on what you and your partner are exploring. I went through several attempts to do quick endings (Forum, Catacombs), most of which my girlfriend blocked. Then I stumbled into using the Craftsman all the time and started winning. Then she started doing it too. Then we switched to the Republic rules, which make Architect better because of all the stuff in the Pool. The game just keeps changing as we get to know it better.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Seater
United States
Ashland
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
I help designers improve their games.
badge
Feed me...games...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
After about 3 plays, something just clicked.

On my first game, I thought "Good lord there are a lot of rules; why did I agree to play this?".

On my second game, I thought "Good lord there are a lot of rules; but it seems to need them all".

On about my 3rd or 4th game, I thought "This game is pretty light and simple. What was my problem before? C'mon guys, take your turn already!"

(I also played this game before 'role selection' was in everyone's vocabulary, so I didn't have the meme ready to apply. I like to think I would have caught on faster if I learned it today.)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randall Bart
United States
Winnetka
California
flag msg tools
designer
Baseball been bery bery good to me
badge
This is a picture of a published game designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rseater wrote:
After about 3 plays, something just clicked.

You must have had a poor teacher. My first game, the other two first timers and I immediately understood the game flow. The only things left to learn were the various building powers.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randall Bart
United States
Winnetka
California
flag msg tools
designer
Baseball been bery bery good to me
badge
This is a picture of a published game designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ldsdbomber wrote:
Good work Randall, but remember the rest of us mortals are nowhere near as smart as you, we only have a normal human brain to work with.


In this case, the person most mortals are nowhere near as smart as was
Noah Kolman
United States
Lake Oswego
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Contig
United States
flag msg tools
(this is not a hint)
badge
(this is still the old picture and I am too lazy to update it)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think it's also not immediately obvious that

- Once a card leaves your hand as a non-foundation, only the color matters.

- There is no (basic) way to move cards from your hand to player mat

- You will only be able to have 2 clients for the first several rounds

- The merchant action is a great way to get points in the game
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K S
United States
Roseville
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
thepackrat wrote:
Paul G wrote:
It says in the rulebook to play a game or two with the basic, no-card-text version, and I wholly support that.


I'm not sure I do. If folks are used to games and having to cope with three dozen different cards (or thereabouts) skipping this avoids the risk of them deciding the game is simply very tedious.

B>


I agree, my buddies and I looked at it (I had played a few games solo pretending to be one or 2 other players) and I told them we could play a couple turns without the text on the buildings and they decided to just grab a bunch of cards and read through them. Then decided after I showed them a turn or two of play that it would take eons without using card text so we just went in full bore. Took them about 4-5 turns to catch on, game ended close and once they got it went to town and it was a very competitive batch of games. (one player wasn't even much of a strategy gamer and she got it fast and learned some excellent back stabbing moves )
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Seater
United States
Ashland
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
I help designers improve their games.
badge
Feed me...games...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
joker9991 wrote:
thepackrat wrote:
Paul G wrote:
It says in the rulebook to play a game or two with the basic, no-card-text version, and I wholly support that.


I'm not sure I do. If folks are used to games and having to cope with three dozen different cards (or thereabouts) skipping this avoids the risk of them deciding the game is simply very tedious.

B>


I agree, my buddies and I looked at it (I had played a few games solo pretending to be one or 2 other players) and I told them we could play a couple turns without the text on the buildings and they decided to just grab a bunch of cards and read through them. Then decided after I showed them a turn or two of play that it would take eons without using card text so we just went in full bore. Took them about 4-5 turns to catch on, game ended close and once they got it went to town and it was a very competitive batch of games. (one player wasn't even much of a strategy gamer and she got it fast and learned some excellent back stabbing moves )

Yeah; I think it's usually better to have players suffer through all the cards (thereby making sure they know what the game is really about) than simplify it and risk them thinking it is too drab.

Just be sure to assure new players that it will indeed click with them, and then it will become quite intuitive.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rseater wrote:
joker9991 wrote:
thepackrat wrote:
Paul G wrote:
It says in the rulebook to play a game or two with the basic, no-card-text version, and I wholly support that.


I'm not sure I do. If folks are used to games and having to cope with three dozen different cards (or thereabouts) skipping this avoids the risk of them deciding the game is simply very tedious.

B>


I agree, my buddies and I looked at it (I had played a few games solo pretending to be one or 2 other players) and I told them we could play a couple turns without the text on the buildings and they decided to just grab a bunch of cards and read through them. Then decided after I showed them a turn or two of play that it would take eons without using card text so we just went in full bore. Took them about 4-5 turns to catch on, game ended close and once they got it went to town and it was a very competitive batch of games. (one player wasn't even much of a strategy gamer and she got it fast and learned some excellent back stabbing moves )

Yeah; I think it's usually better to have players suffer through all the cards (thereby making sure they know what the game is really about) than simplify it and risk them thinking it is too drab.

Just be sure to assure new players that it will indeed click with them, and then it will become quite intuitive.


Another issue is simply the time wasted in adding unnecessary "training wheels". You could probably cover the "easy game" by doing a practice round, then playing with the card text, as opposed to the extra time that would've been spent on a whole practice game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.