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Subject: The Dalai Lama on Ethics and Religion. rss

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Paul DeStefano
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Posted on Facebook:

All the world’s major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether.
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Boaty McBoatface
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I would tend to agree, and maybe go further. Of coourse a lot depends on what relgion you are talking about.
 
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Jack Smith
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Geosphere wrote:
Posted on Facebook:

All the world’s major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether.


I have no reason to believe much ethics is derived from religion anyway. People tend to fit their religious beliefs to their own ethics rather than the other way round (or all Christians would believe in slavery and would throw away all their wordy possessions including their family)

The word spiritual is so fuzzy and badly defined it also only has a meaning to the person saying it. That usually consists of crediting an outside agency to simple human emotions, thought processes and feelings which has the effect of belief reinforcement and feeling comfort in that.

The Dalai Lama is a pretty modern and sensible person though. He has to tread carefully in what he says and if he said this it is quite a big move for those that believe ethics can only be derived from religion, which many do. The causes of 'spirituality' are already well known so looking outside religion simply means not crediting any supernatural agency for it. I can't see that happening.
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Geosphere wrote:
Posted on Facebook:

All the world’s major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether.

He's got a good point.

I think religion does a lot of good. It helps a lot of people be better.

But enough people aren't following their own religions' teachings, of "love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness."

And for people who follow the "atheist religion," I guess we can only hope that they too decide to "love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness."

The question is, how do you get people to be good? It's not easy. Religions try but are only partly successful.

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Paul DeStefano
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Halfinger wrote:
believe in slavery and would throw away all their wordy possessions


If I had no possessions, what would I need my slaves for?
 
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Halfinger wrote:
(or all Christians would believe in slavery and would throw away all their wordy possessions including their family)


They could start with their bibles, they're pretty wordy.
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Jack Smith
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Geosphere wrote:
Halfinger wrote:
believe in slavery and would throw away all their wordy possessions


If I had no possessions, what would I need my slaves for?


I'm the last to claim the bible has any consistency.
 
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tesuji wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
Posted on Facebook:

All the world’s major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether.

He's got a good point.

I think religion does a lot of good. It helps a lot of people be better.

But enough people aren't following their own religions' teachings, of "love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness."

And for people who follow the "atheist religion," I guess we can only hope that they too decide to "love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness."

The question is, how do you get people to be good? It's not easy. Religions try but are only partly successful.



Atheists obtain their morality the same way theists do. From our natural empathy as a communal species, upbringing, cognitive processes, the dislike of pain in others and the need to get on in society. We just don't credit a book written by stone age people for that. Our morality has developed in such a way it is well past the bible.

I would also challenge the idea religions are required to make people good as well. There is no good a religious person would do that an atheist could not and for the same reasons. If you have a system that continually gives a free pass to immoral acts by providing forgiveness for just believing I find that a complete abrogation of moral responsibility.

I also find this moral arrogance and certainty religion can provide very dangerous as it allows almost any act to be justified without giving it proper thought, as we see all over the world now.

I do NOT see 'love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness' at all, I see the opposite. Religion is very selfish and egoistic as it fools people into thinking they are doing something 'good' and getting their heaven credits for that when in fact it should be normal human behaviour. They get a warm fuzzy feeling which is fine but ultimately no indicator of any supernatural cause or purpose.


The Dalai Lama is just stating the obvious but due to his position it was a brave thing to do. He is suggesting a secular system is valid which is not what many religions want as it messes up one of their most powerful sales pitches and supports one of the biggest lies in history, that religion provides any sense of modern morality which even you fall for despite obvious demonstrable evidence to the contrary.
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