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Subject: 3rd Edition Rules rss

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Glenn Pruitt
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I think I read somewhere that a version of the third edition rules, complete with optional and advanced rules is coming soon. Is this true? If so, does soon mean by then end of 2005? or does soon mean when all the stars align and free time magically appears in the life of the rules editor?
 
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Steve McKnight
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No, it's true. Here is a note that I sent to the Magic Realm list-serve:

Quote:
I guess I'll take a shot at answering here. While Teresa and I were originally going to include many more Optional Rules than were in the Second Edition, it became obvious that there was nowhere to draw the line.

As a result, I ended up including in the new release of the Third Edition Rules (MR 3.1 if you want) only the Optional and Advanced Rules that were in the Second Edition and some others that we had an indication from Richard Hamblen were supposed to be there: "Watchful Natives," "Benevolent Spells," "Extended Treachery," "Extended Development" (from the Avalon-Hill General magazine). There is still going to be a need for someone to do a compilation of "House Rules."

On the other hand, Teresa and I have added all the clarifications that we have found out about since the Third Edition Rules first came out, and gone through several cycles of editing and proof-reading by us and by Jay Richardson.

The status is that Dan Farrow is adding an index for the basic rules, after which we will PDF it up, announce it to the list, and put it on as many sites as we can find.


When this will happen depends a lot on Dan Farrow's schedule, but I would say that before the end of the year is probably a good guess.

--Steve McKnight
 
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Michael Cox
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Are those "official" 3rd edtion rules? I am new to MR so...

I ask because a link here says these are Unofficial 3rd Edition:
http://www.thewinternet.com/magicrealm/
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Steve McKnight
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To be clear, all versions of the Third Edition Rules are "unofficial." From the introduction to the Third Edition Rules (Section 1.1):

Quote:
"The Third Edition Rules are the product of long-time Magic Realm players who came to the conclusion that a new rulebook is necessary for the true elegance of Magic Realm to emerge from the existing rules. While “unofficial” in the sense that they are not a product of the Avalon Hill Company, the Magic Realm publisher (now out of business), these rules are the product of over 50 collective years of experience with the game and represent the most complete interpretation of the game that we can muster. We have been assisted in this effort by extensive discussions and comments from the Magic Realm designer, Richard Hamblen, and by the collected wisdom of the on-line Magic Realm community. We welcome you to use these rules at your pleasure, to reproduce, and freely distribute them, as long as they are not sold and no charge is made for their use.

"Unlike the Second Edition Rules, which made major changes to the First Edition Rules to rationalize and extend the play of Magic Realm, these Third Edition Rules reorganize and streamline the Second Edition Rules without making any significant rule changes. The Third Edition Rules are fully compatible with the full Second Edition Rules (with minor exceptions as noted), and players may use the Second Edition or the Third Edition interchangeably, depending on preference."



 
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Glenn Pruitt
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Fantastic!

I'm looking forward to a complete set of 3rd edition rules. Thanks for the good word!

-Glenn
 
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Michael Cox
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So, basically, these "unofficial" 3rd edition rules are as "official" as any new rules are ever going to be for MR? I can live with that.

Thanks for the info.thumbsup
 
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Mike Barton
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Hello All,
I was just wondering if there might be some grey area here. Technically Avalon Hill was purchased by Hasbro. I agree that they are not re-printing many [any?] of the old AH titles, but does that mean Hasbro doesn't own the rights to Magic Realm? Does anyone know legally/factually if Magic Realm has been specifically abandoned? You might want to check because you might end up in a bit of a spot if Hasbro/Avalon Hill still owns the copyright for Magic Realm.

I think you'll be all right if you make it very, very clear that you recognize the facts above and that these are THIRD PARTY ALTERNATE RULES. There's been a lot of sensitivity to Intellectual property, and I mean recently and specifically, even when it does not involve the 'conduct of commerce' (i.e. no one is selling anything).

By the current law now, copyrights can be maintained for 74 years without announcement, Avalon Hill still exists (as a subsidiary of Hasbro) and I don't know of any formal 'abandonment' announcement.

Just wanted to point this out. I am not a lawyer, but I would definitely consult one before printing anythign you are calling 'official or unofficial rules' for a copyrighted work.

Having relatives who have been embarassed and sued for what seemed to be trivial infringement drove me to point this out BEFORE the stuff hits the fan.

Please make sure you have the right permission to call it that.

Thought you'd rather find out sooner than later.

Of course, I may be wrong, but it's safer to make sure.

Mike Barton
 
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Mike Barton
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That last bit was prompted by the statement in the previous threads that 'Avalon Hill is out of business.'

That statement is patently not true.

Avalon Hill IS in business, they are just not producing the same material they were 30 odd years ago. And they are owned by Hasbro (commonly referred to as the HASBORG - assimilating all the compettition).
 
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Steve McKnight
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Well, they say that no good deed goes unpunished....

The intellectual property status of Magic Realm seems especially uncertain. A gamer, John Fenzel, who pestered Hasbro to see if he needed permission to create a website titled MagicRealm.net finally got the following reply from Hasbro:

Quote:
Mr. Frenzel,

(Your e-mail to Hasbro's Consumer Affairs Department, dated July 30, 2001, in which you requested information on the Avalon Hill game entitled "Magic Realm", has been forwarded to Hasbro Games for reply.)

Hasbro does not own the rights to this title any longer. The ownership of this property has reverted back to the inventor. This occurred before Hasbro acquired Avalon Hill Games, so therefore we have no information on who the inventor might be.

Thank you for your interest in Avalon Hill and we wish we could have been more help.

Sincerely,
Helen Van Tassel

Helen Van Tassel
Hasbro Games
443 Shaker Road
E. Longmeadow, MA 01028
Phone: 413-526-2309
Fax : 413-526-4820



Richard Hamblen, the designer and developer of Magic Realm has so far been unable to confirm that he indeed owns Magic Realm. The Third Edition Rules were published with the knowledge, permission, and assistance of Richard Hamblen. To the extent that Richard does, indeed, own the rights to Magic Realm, the intellectual property requirements have been fully satisfied.

--Steve McKnight
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Mike Barton
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Good to know!

Keep in mind that given this statement by Hasbro, all it means is HASBRO will not sue. That may be enough!

If no one is going to defend the copyright then it's whoever gets to it first.

Mike
 
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