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Subject: Please help! I want to love this game. rss

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Keith Wilson
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Hi guys.

I've had the books downloaded as long as I've been aware this game existed (at least 6 months), but no matter how eager I have been to try this game I was always apprehensive about it.

Tonight I tried the game for the first time. I got to turn 10, but by that time I got myself in such a muddle I didn't know what was happening. I'm going to try to explain a bit of what happened to see if I am playing correctly. Here goes:

I created this regeneration of the Doctor to have Brains=11, Brawn=5 and Bravery=10. The traits I chose were: Aware, Charisma, Computers, Engeneering, History, Running, Science, TARDIS.

I found a Sonic Screwdriver in the TARDIS (never used this as part of the adventure, not sure if I should have).

Turn 0: I land on planet Earth, 2005, London Underground. Immediately I am lost.

Turn 1: Being lost, I try to find my way, to no avail. No encounter either, eventful first ever turn playing the game makes me panic that I have done something wrong.

Turn 2: I managed to find my way and explore the surrounding area. I met Rose Tyler, she had no relevant information to my adventure but she joined me as my companion. No encounter again.

Turn 3: We continued to explore the surrounding area, however we discovered nothing unusual. We did however encounter a reporter who just wondered off.

Turn 4: Again we found nothing of interest while exploring. The encounter saw us back in the London Underground.

Turn 5: Visited a famous Landmark. (How do I know if characters are Native apart from just knowing from the series? Should I keep note of where and when I met them? and all same locations and eras make them native?).

Here is where I start getting confused.

End of turn 5, encounter. Rose gets captured and interrogated (by who, I don't know who the enemy is yet, does this matter?). She does however hold up well to interrogation.

Turn 6: I try and rescure Rose but to no avail. There is also no encounter. (Did I make a mistake in this turn and the following turns? Should Rose take an action also? Or is it just one group?)

Turn 7: Again I fail to rescure Rose. CODE 9! The Abzorbaloff has recognised the TARDIS. (The code 9 event came up here, does this make sense? Should I know who the enemy is from this event assuming the right rolls? Sorry I didn't make a note of the rolls).

Turn 8: I try to investigate but to no avail. I encounter the Abzorbaloff who is in Human form and accompanied by 1 other human. I confuse the Abzorbaloff, who reveals that I am the target of his hunt (the goal). Rose becomes enslaved (is this correct?).

Turn 9: (Under the impression that I now roll each turn for Rose's enslavement - also, if she should be taking actions each turn as well as the Doctor, does this count as it or would she get an action as well?). Rose encounters 3 Police Officers who join as allies (what happens now? They are part of Rose's group? Even more confused :S). I try to research the situation but to no avail. Also no encounter.

Turn 10: I finished by rolling for Rose who took a wound. This is where I left it and got confused. I wasn't sure how to beat the Abzorbaloff. I had DM=3 and the goal was 4. I worked out I had to get to DM=4 which was why I was researching, what after that?

Sorry for the long post and if all these are really stupid question, but like I said I really want to love this game. I'm a massive Who fan and watch it religiously whenever it is on TV, this game is perfect in that it can recreate the show (First episode, trip to London, meet Rose Tyler) but can then go in the completely the opposite direction (Rose enslaved by the Abzorbaloff and meets 3 Police Officers who help her out, getting lost on the underground).

Thanks for all those willing to help a Who fan out!
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Michael Z
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kjpw_88 wrote:
Hi guys.

I've had the books downloaded as long as I've been aware this game existed (at least 6 months), but no matter how eager I have been to try this game I was always apprehensive about it.

Tonight I tried the game for the first time. I got to turn 10, but by that time I got myself in such a muddle I didn't know what was happening. I'm going to try to explain a bit of what happened to see if I am playing correctly. Here goes:

I created this regeneration of the Doctor to have Brains=11, Brawn=5 and Bravery=10. The traits I chose were: Aware, Charisma, Computers, Engeneering, History, Running, Science, TARDIS.

I found a Sonic Screwdriver in the TARDIS (never used this as part of the adventure, not sure if I should have).

Turn 0: I land on planet Earth, 2005, London Underground. Immediately I am lost.

Turn 1: Being lost, I try to find my way, to no avail. No encounter either, eventful first ever turn playing the game makes me panic that I have done something wrong.

Turn 2: I managed to find my way and explore the surrounding area. I met Rose Tyler, she had no relevant information to my adventure but she joined me as my companion. No encounter again.

Turn 3: We continued to explore the surrounding area, however we discovered nothing unusual. We did however encounter a reporter who just wondered off.

Turn 4: Again we found nothing of interest while exploring. The encounter saw us back in the London Underground.

Turn 5: Visited a famous Landmark. (How do I know if characters are Native apart from just knowing from the series? Should I keep note of where and when I met them? and all same locations and eras make them native?).


Seems all good moves up to here.

You would have to keep track of their native period. Some named characters might be easy to recall as you said and not need notes.


Quote:

Here is where I start getting confused.

End of turn 5, encounter. Rose gets captured and interrogated (by who, I don't know who the enemy is yet, does this matter?). She does however hold up well to interrogation.


Storytelling needed. I think if there is no enemy, it is sort of assumed she's ben captured by local authorities (e.g. Police, FBI, Torchwood, Roman legion etc.)

Quote:

Turn 6: I try and rescure Rose but to no avail. There is also no encounter. (Did I make a mistake in this turn and the following turns? Should Rose take an action also? Or is it just one group?)


You are now separated. Rose is being interrogated by authorities and the Doctor is fine and dandy. Events that happen to the doctor now won't affect/include Rose as she is 'safe' in a room with coppers.

Rose *could* have made an ESCAPE action as outlined in the interrogation/captured event. She could alternatively choose to sit and wait. She won't have an encounter because you don't have them while incarcerated.

Also your sonic screwdriver should have been giving you a bonus here to your rescue roll.

Quote:

Turn 7: Again I fail to rescure Rose. CODE 9! The Abzorbaloff has recognised the TARDIS. (The code 9 event came up here, does this make sense? Should I know who the enemy is from this event assuming the right rolls? Sorry I didn't make a note of the rolls).


If something happens that requires an enemy and you don't know the enemy yet, you will have to reveal the enemy.

Again storytell it. While the doctor was getting something from the TARDIS to help rescue Rose he noticed a strange energy signature that alerted him an Abzorbaloff was nearby.


Quote:
Turn 8: I try to investigate but to no avail. I encounter the Abzorbaloff who is in Human form and accompanied by 1 other human. I confuse the Abzorbaloff, who reveals that I am the target of his hunt (the goal). Rose becomes enslaved (is this correct?).


How exactly did Rose become enslaved?

If from her interrogation - yes.

If from some effect from the Abzorbaloff - no. She's still being interrogated by third party authorities.

Quote:

Turn 9: (Under the impression that I now roll each turn for Rose's enslavement - also, if she should be taking actions each turn as well as the Doctor, does this count as it or would she get an action as well?). Rose encounters 3 Police Officers who join as allies (what happens now? They are part of Rose's group? Even more confused :S). I try to research the situation but to no avail. Also no encounter.


Rose and Doctor are still two groups. She has limited choices on what to do based on enslavement book paragraph. And instead of an encounter rolls on the enslavement thingy.
Anyone Rose meets are part of Rose's group.

Quote:

Turn 10: I finished by rolling for Rose who took a wound. This is where I left it and got confused. I wasn't sure how to beat the Abzorbaloff. I had DM=3 and the goal was 4. I worked out I had to get to DM=4 which was why I was researching, what after that?


Why did Rose take a wound? (enslavement?)

If it looks hopeless to defeat the enemy in time, you can try an early defeat by rolling "Defeat enemy" as an action. This is risky as a low roll can seriously hurt your party. But keep in mind you'd have your current +3 DM to your roll and other relevant bonuses.

Quote:
Sorry for the long post and if all these are really stupid question, but like I said I really want to love this game. I'm a massive Who fan and watch it religiously whenever it is on TV, this game is perfect in that it can recreate the show (First episode, trip to London, meet Rose Tyler) but can then go in the completely the opposite direction (Rose enslaved by the Abzorbaloff and meets 3 Police Officers who help her out, getting lost on the underground).

Thanks for all those willing to help a Who fan out!


This game is slightly bad (not horrible) to understand at first. I still think many rules and tidbits could be clearer to make ease of play. But it is quite fun once you get into the swing of it.

Luck-based rolls mean that your first adventure can quite often be quite difficult to get through, particularly when you have little idea what might be the best option at a particular juncture.
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simon cogan
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Thanks for the great analysis Michael and you are correct on every count!

You say the rules are 'slightly bad'. What can I do to make them better - what bits need clarifying exactly?

I'm very gratefuil for the feedback, so if more people want a rules re-write or tweak i'm happy to oblige.
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Michael Z
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dragoncymru wrote:
Thanks for the great analysis Michael and you are correct on every count!

You say the rules are 'slightly bad'. What can I do to make them better - what bits need clarifying exactly?

I'm very gratefuil for the feedback, so if more people want a rules re-write or tweak i'm happy to oblige.


Similar to things I said before.

I agree with you that the rules are "right there" and in pretty plain sight, but they don't seem to be quite so apparent to newcomers to the game. Consistent phrasing is another thing.

Some rules I found hard to find:

*revealed enemies replace the next plot event with a goal event and then all future plot/goals are +1DM instead (buried in enemy description about goals)
*working with a separated party (separate actions AND separate encounter rolls)
*what actions are allowed when - in particular Research and Seek Information (can you attempt these if you have none of the traits listed? or more importantly can you attempt Research in a pre-Victorian era?)
*Running away and Hiding from enemies (you've confirmed each character roles individually)
*what exactly is a "location"(am I at a location until I find a new one, make a move roll, have an event and/or feel like it)
*TARDIS character vs companion

I'm really not complaining. The main reason why it is a bit difficult is because it is such a big depthy game (and I've only been using the base rules so far). I don't think it needs a re-write. Just perhaps a tweak here and there and the problems are minor enough that its difficult to be specific.
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Roland W. est. 1984
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I felt the same the first time I played the game and found it very funny when I teached my brother the game yesterday on a visit that he just asked the same questions I did ...

I think the rules/events could be improved if you want to make them user friendly especially for new players:
- More examples in the rules.
- A easier to understand structure in the rules. For example when it comes to Trait and quality rolls it would be much easier if you just add the sentence "There are 3 kind of rolls..." (this was the most confusing part next to goal and plot events for my brother). Or "on arrival" --> for the whole adventure. Also phrases like "ingore if you do not have this or that" would be nice because people are always confused if they have an event but do not have the equipment/allys/companions the event is refering to.
- "Definitions" troops, companions, allys, ....
- Always the same wording e.g."On a result of 5-6, Mickey becomes a Companion gain a point." --> gain a luck point.
- For my part I would find it brilliant if the options to defeat the enemy would be marked in some way.

Do you have an "error" threat somewhere were we can write down problems, or typingmistakes we have found?

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zayzayem wrote:

*what exactly is a "location"(am I at a location until I find a new one, make a move roll, have an event and/or feel like it)
*TARDIS character vs companion

This will be very nice. There was answer in some thread is it needed a Move roll to "move out" of a location, but it's hard to find.
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I though you did not need a move roll to move out of a location (did I not ask this before :-) )
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Keith Wilson
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Where does it say no encounters when you are captured, enslaved etc?

I found mistakes I made in my last game. At the moment I am playing again.

I found myself aboard the titanic with the clockwork robots. Astrid got killed (I didn't choose the KO option and failed to surrender 3 times! They just kept attacking). The Doctor is now awaiting punishment e061.

So he can choose escape but no other action? And he gets no encounter until he has escaped?

Thanks again for all your help guys.
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David Bate
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R306b. Escaping Capture
You will often get captured by various Enemies and other Characters. To escape you normally roll 2D6 and add any modifier (it is usually harder to escape bases for example), and the event will tell you the result of your escape attempt. Some events or artifacts, like a Sonic Screwdriver, will give you bonuses to Escape rolls.
Characters that are captured do not have to roll for an Encounter each turn but the capture event may ask you to roll a dice to see if anything nasty has happened to you…

The (rolled) event will fill you in on what actions things that could happen while here (EDIT: To clarify with small edit to swap use of the word 'action' - don't want to confuse the possible further events with the 'action' keyword), usually escape is the only action available. It will also tell you what other nastiness may happen. But you don't have to do a normal encounter roll.

The FAQ doc say:

• Anytime you are captured, you DO NOT roll for a normal encounter on the encounter table.

• When part of your party gets captured, treat it like being split up.

• Captured people do not get events. The captured events detail what will happen to you. You have no Actions whilst captured (in any form) except Escape. No encounters either apart from those described by the capture event.
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Keith Wilson
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Here is the session I have just finished:

Turn 0: Landed on the Titanic in Earth Orbit 2008 (9, Post Modern Era). First Character met will be e271. Additional +1DM when the enemy is revealed. 8+ on Relax: may also see e281. No encounter.

Turn 1: Explore Action. Met Astrid Peth. She knows no relevant information. Encountered 2 Clockwork Robots (Brains 6, Brawn 8, Bravery 5, Machine) and talk to them. The Robots teleport away.

Turn 2: Investigate Action. Discovered an important place that the Robots fled to. 1 Clockwork Robot is still here. Talked to it. The Robot teleport away again. No encounter.

Turn 3: Seek Information Action. Discovered another important place that the Robots fled to. 2 Clockwork Robots are still here. Talked to them. The Robots attack. No one suffers any damage. Surrendered but the Robots attack again. No one suffers any damage. Surrendered but the Robots continue the attack. The two Robots each take one wound and so does Astrid. Surrended but the Robots attack again. Astrid is Killed. Surrended and Captured to await Punishment.

Turn 4: Attempt to escape and failed with no further event.

Turn 5: Attempt to escape and failed. Then interrogated.

Turn 6: Attempt to escape and failed.

Turn 7: Successfully escape. Encountered an Alien Ambassador (Hop Pyleen) who imparts knowledge (+1 for Psychic Paper and used luck to avoid insulting them). The Clockwork Robots are trying to assisinate the Ambassador.

Turn 8: Planning action (+1 to planning next turn). No encounter.

Turn 9: Planning action (+4 Brains until adventure end). Encountered 4 Clockwork Robots and talk to them. The Robots are defeated (+2 Luck).

I think I did everything right. Not sure about the section where I was awaiting punishment. It said I could use the escape action, was that my only choice? And there were no encounters? Was I right that my Psychic paper helps me when talking to the ambassador? It wasn't a Charisma roll but was a talk action.

Overall I could have rescued Astrid if I had known to KO her when she took the first wound. I didn't use any luck either (until I wanted to avoid capture by the ambassador). I liked the idea that I met the Robots but didn't know what they were up to until I met the Ambassador who told me they were trying to assisinate him.

If all the games I play have a story unfold as well as this one did I can see my becoming very interested in this game! Now to get the Rules down...
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David Bate
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The FAQ is over on the Yahoo Group, I don't remember seeing it in the file section. Found it I must have Kryton spare head number 3 on today



http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/65120/dr-who-faq
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Keith Wilson
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wrrlykam wrote:
R306b. Escaping Capture
You will often get captured by various Enemies and other Characters. To escape you normally roll 2D6 and add any modifier (it is usually harder to escape bases for example), and the event will tell you the result of your escape attempt. Some events or artifacts, like a Sonic Screwdriver, will give you bonuses to Escape rolls.
Characters that are captured do not have to roll for an Encounter each turn but the capture event may ask you to roll a dice to see if anything nasty has happened to you…

The event will fill you in on what actions if any can be done, usually escape is the only action available. It will also tell you what other nastiness may happen. But you don't have to do a normal encounter roll.

The FAQ doc say:

• Anytime you are captured, you DO NOT roll for a normal encounter on the encounter table.

• When part of your party gets captured, treat it like being split up.

• Captured people do not get events. The captured events detail what will happen to you. You have no Actions whilst captured (in any form) except Escape. No encounters either apart from those described by the capture event.


Thanks! I think I played it right then.
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evil_puck wrote:
I though you did not need a move roll to move out of a location (did I not ask this before :-) )


No you don't.

And a TARDIS Character = Doctor or Companion - that's it, nice and simple!
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dragoncymru wrote:

And a TARDIS Character = Doctor or Companion - that's it, nice and simple!


Unless its

e003 Jackie Tyler
e193 K9
e021 Jack Harkness
e248 Wilf Noble
e109 Donna Noble
fe04 former Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart

and other characters who are given a caveat that they are always TARDIS characters

---

If I was going to restructure the rulebook it might look like this:

1) Welcome, as is, might mention expansions exist

2) How to play - I would combine this with R305 "Adventure" right there and then.
needs to specifically mention that an encounter roll is made on arrival to a location (Turn0) as I still have yet to find where this is written in the rules.
Should also explain that plot events no longer occur once an enemy has been revealed (no need to say what happens instead yet, but I think it should be repeated here when you are introducing "plot event" concept. Outline clearly when you can try to acheive plot events.
Also outline DM tracking. DM help you defeat an enemy. You may earn or lose DM even before you know who the enemy is. Unless playing by advanced rules DM min is 0. More on DM later.
What happens at the end of an adventure (win/lose) should be described here.

3) Character section - YOUR CHARACTER section, add doctor is always a TARDIS character

4) Character section - NPC section -- allies, companions ("special permanent allies"), TARDIS character concept, what happens when you get an automatic companion event when you are already at max companions?

Concepts like Victim, Troop and "Native to an adventure" might be good here too.

5) Equipment section.

6) Enemies.
Describe difference between enemy DM and your current adventure DM tally.
The "You amy attempt to defeat an enemy as Action" paragraph should be removed. Save for actions section.
The "Once you have rolled for an enemy" paragraph should include the plot event removal step as this is something that happens after you rolled for an enemy too.
Outline difference between revealing and encountering enemies.
Goal roll description and goal reveal turning into +DM description.


7) Rolls. Better separation.
Trait rolls. Explain what Charisma roll of 8 with +1 bonus means with example. Explain when to pool group traits and when not to (running away and hiding)
Quality rolls. Explain what a Brains roll of 8 with +1 bonus means.
Opposed Quality rolls.

Concepts like "Minion" and all base enemy are "troop" should be explained here too.

9) Combat
"Combat Procedure: Combat is fought in rounds and continues until one side escapes, surrenders or is killed. At the start of each round, you decide which of your Characters will face each opposing Character encountered."
Can I surrender mid-fight without playing the advanced combat rules?

10) Wounds, KO & Death

11)Actions in adventure.
*Ah just found Turn 0 reference*
a)Defeating enemies - outline here this is risky, but can be attempted even if you can't oppose yet.

b) Escaping. Do captives escape together or individually?

c)Exploring - Possibly mention this will likely be the only available default action at a non-holiday adventure until something happens.

e)MOVE
Answer these questions (I know the answer to some of these but they are not here in this paragraph)
-do I need to make a move roll to split up my group voluntarily?
-how do i "randomly" split my group?
-If one person is captured am I considered split.
-do groups have to be together to acheive DM from a goal event?
-do all groups have to use "move" as an action that turn to rejoin, or conversely do I have multiple opportunities for each group to move to the other if I fail my first group's roll?
-How do I move to the TARDIS?
-What is a location and how long am I there?
-Is the move roll to get to location/relatives also *+ and Tracking-only dependent (why is it so hard to find my Mum?)
-Does "Follow" happen on the turn after I encounter the enemy or is it during the enemy encounter?
-Does each group need a TARDIS character?
-Can "troop" characters go off on their own?

I think perhaps first state Move normally is an 8+ Tracking roll and can do the following things (list them)
And then describe the special Tracking/Thief/Enemy dependent roll of following.
Then summarise split groups (how does it happen, what does it mean)

h) Research. Can I research in a Pre-Victorian era?

i) Rescue. Can I rescue someone who tried to escape? Can someone who tried to escape be rescued? Do characters need to be rescued individually? What if someone is captured, another being interrogated and another enslaved,a nd another free?

j) SEEK INFO. Is the automatic enemy encounter on doubles only if you roll the threshold needed for an encounter?


12) What happens at the end of an adventure.
Resummarize getting luck (on a win), losing luck/regeneration (on loss), companion checks - can you lose a companion that you just gained on that adventure?
Then explain what you can do with luck.


---
This ordering is designed to introduce concepts as the player should encounter them on their adventure.

You're going on an adventure.
You have a character (BTW you'll meet some others too).
You have some stuff.
You'll be trying to beat these guys.
Doing this with some dice.
Sometimes this (a variant of the thing before)
This is all the things you'll be able to try to do on your adventure.
When its all over you'll do this.

(Perhaps adventure actions should be no. 2 on the list?)


I don't use the appendices much so can't comment much. Only I would put Appendix 2 and Appendix 6 as the last two appendices, because that's where character sheets and rules summaries belong.



..
..
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simon cogan
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Many thanks Michael - I'll start looking at this as a guide to a reformat.

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Simon it may be worth looking at the FAQ too and see what items can be inserted into the rulebook to clarify things and then they can be removed from the FAQ.
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wrrlykam wrote:
Simon it may be worth looking at the FAQ too and see what items can be inserted into the rulebook to clarify things and then they can be removed from the FAQ.


Oh yes absolutely.

I hope no-one is expecting this to happen over night though...
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Roland W. est. 1984
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:-) nobody does. If we can help you with anything (search for writing errors, searching for pictures...and and and...) just ask. You do an absolut excellent job and I really wonder were you get the time for such cool game

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Simon has his own TARDIS.
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wrrlykam wrote:
Simon has his own TARDIS.


Ha! Wish I did!

The best thing people can do to help is to suggest things I need to do. the FAQ will be a good place to start and I've already made a few tweaks.

Also, think about how we can get the game more physical and visualy appealing - I'd love to figure out how we get more visual appeal through something like a board? Or different boards for different adventures?

I think the Core Rules will stay 10th Doctor though as the Core game is 10th (and 9th) Doctor..
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kjpw_88 wrote:

Turn 5: Visited a famous Landmark. (How do I know if characters are Native apart from just knowing from the series? Should I keep note of where and when I met them? and all same locations and eras make them native?).


Just noticed that using the TV Series as a reference won't work always.

I have a Martha Jones who is native to the 2018 Moon Colony (a436).
 
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dragoncymru wrote:
I think the Core Rules will stay 10th Doctor though as the Core game is 10th (and 9th) Doctor..


Works for me, certainly. If you updated to 11th just to stay current, it'll still grow out of sync with the current incarnation sooner or later.
 
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zayzayem wrote:
kjpw_88 wrote:

Turn 5: Visited a famous Landmark. (How do I know if characters are Native apart from just knowing from the series? Should I keep note of where and when I met them? and all same locations and eras make them native?).


Just noticed that using the TV Series as a reference won't work always.

I have a Martha Jones who is native to the 2018 Moon Colony (a436).


It wouldn't be the first time she was on the moon. In the story telling part of my brain I can see her on a UNIT special assignment as part of the colony team.
 
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David Bate
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Psitticine wrote:
dragoncymru wrote:
I think the Core Rules will stay 10th Doctor though as the Core game is 10th (and 9th) Doctor..


Works for me, certainly. If you updated to 11th just to stay current, it'll still grow out of sync with the current incarnation sooner or later.


For me "What's past is prologue". The Tenth Doctor era was the time and setting for the beginning of DWSSG, its creation and development. It should remain that, as the basis for all that comes in the future.
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