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Subject: Universal dice rolls rss

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To paraphrase (poorly) Joel Eddy in one of his reviews:

Wargamers tend to not make issues of poor die rolls, and tend not to care or put too much importance on 'winning', but moreso on playing well and enjoying the game itself, the battles won and lost.

Eurogamers tend to fixate on 'winning' and seem to overexaggerate percieved 'bad dice', and call it a poor experience based on those results too often, yet feel confident in their gaming abilities when the dice roll their way and result in a winning game.

I think if you avoid a game because you think the dice treat you poorly or you dislike the inherent luck element that dice bring, you really are not playing the game for what it is.

That's probably more than 2c worth. Keep the change.
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Fernando Robert Yu
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markgravitygood wrote:
To paraphrase (poorly) Joel Eddy in one of his reviews:

Wargamers tend to not make issues of poor die rolls, and tend not to care or put too much importance on 'winning', but moreso on playing well and enjoying the game itself, the battles won and lost.

Eurogamers tend to fixate on 'winning' and seem to overexaggerate percieved 'bad dice', and call it a poor experience based on those results too often, yet feel confident in their gaming abilities when the dice roll their way and result in a winning game.

I think if you avoid a game because you think the dice treat you poorly or you dislike the inherent luck element that dice bring, you really are not playing the game for what it is.

That's probably more than 2c worth. Keep the change.

Excellent post!
 
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Felipe Barros
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Having played the game over 100 times, Stone Age luck is way more on card repository than dice. Between careful use of your pips and tools , being given one of the best cards on the 1-slot when you are the starting player is way more swing than any rolls you make

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Francis K. Lalumiere
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crambaza wrote:
Dale-not-Chip wrote:
I'm not hating on math.

The reason I used those examples is because the odds of it happening is much less likely than a rolling 7 dice and getting bad rolls for the majority of the game. Yet it happens.


There is a 1 in 6 chance of rolling a 1 on a six sided die. Math tells us that if we roll it thousands of times a 1 will show up 1/6 of the time. But all that is worthless if you only roll 6 times.

Sure with Stone Age if you play it a lot the Dice rolls follow the Math odds, but if you only play it a few times the odds don't really matter.

And doubting someone had horrible luck because of the odds is using statics unrealistically.
Sure, the odds of rolling a 1 on a single die is 1/6. But if you are gathering resources with 1 guy, that is a fool's errand.

If you go with 2, now all of a sudden it is 1/36 of rolling 2 1's. You just got 6 times better.

It sounds like you don't have a problem with Stone Age, but rather dice. You could always avoid games with dice if you don't want to worry about getting bad rolls.

...

Wait, I am in the variants forum... I should know better than to be here.

Sorry, I will leave you to your inaccurate representation of math, probability and statistics. Is that your variant?
Well, it IS possible for wild total deltas to happen between dice rolls in Stone Age. No matter what probability gurus choose to regurgitate.

What I'm saying is that I don't like to get screwed by dice in a game where you're supposed to run a tight ship with the resources at your disposal.
And so I'm exploring ways to make Stone Age more to my liking.

(Some people here suggest that I play another game, and that's usually what I do. I would point the audience to Macao for a dice game that, in my opinion, creates a very balanced mix of dice and resource management.)
 
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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markgravitygood wrote:
To paraphrase (poorly) Joel Eddy in one of his reviews:

Wargamers tend to not make issues of poor die rolls, and tend not to care or put too much importance on 'winning', but moreso on playing well and enjoying the game itself, the battles won and lost.

Eurogamers tend to fixate on 'winning' and seem to overexaggerate percieved 'bad dice', and call it a poor experience based on those results too often, yet feel confident in their gaming abilities when the dice roll their way and result in a winning game.

I think if you avoid a game because you think the dice treat you poorly or you dislike the inherent luck element that dice bring, you really are not playing the game for what it is.

That's probably more than 2c worth. Keep the change.
I did write that we sat down with the express purpose of examining how a few games unfold, precisely because we didn't want vague impressions to rule our opinions, right?
And yes -- gasp!! -- we did see some serious dice screwage happening.

For what it's worth, I wasn't the one at the receiving end of the screwage. So no need to tell me that I feel bad for not winning and I'm blaming it on the dice. But strangely, in each game, the one who was at that receivind end finished dead last in the scoring...
(I'm told it won't happen between two experienced players. Well, I rarely play those games with just two.)
 
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weishaupt wrote:
markgravitygood wrote:
To paraphrase (poorly) Joel Eddy in one of his reviews:

Wargamers tend to not make issues of poor die rolls, and tend not to care or put too much importance on 'winning', but moreso on playing well and enjoying the game itself, the battles won and lost.

Eurogamers tend to fixate on 'winning' and seem to overexaggerate percieved 'bad dice', and call it a poor experience based on those results too often, yet feel confident in their gaming abilities when the dice roll their way and result in a winning game.

I think if you avoid a game because you think the dice treat you poorly or you dislike the inherent luck element that dice bring, you really are not playing the game for what it is.

That's probably more than 2c worth. Keep the change.
I did write that we sat down with the express purpose of examining how a few games unfold, precisely because we didn't want vague impressions to rule our opinions, right?
And yes -- gasp!! -- we did see some serious dice screwage happening.

For what it's worth, I wasn't the one at the receiving end of the screwage. So no need to tell me that I feel bad for not winning and I'm blaming it on the dice. But strangely, in each game, the one who was at that receivind end finished dead last in the scoring...
(I'm told it won't happen between two experienced players. Well, I rarely play those games with just two.)

Well, That's good Francis, because, unbelievably, I did not tell you you felt bad for not winning. I was relaying a general observation about two different styles of board gamers, Right?

Gasp!!

It could be assumed you fall into the eurogamer category based on your 'bad dice' complains in this thread, but I don't want to be the one to label you that way. I was merely offering an outside viewpoint.

A fact: bad dice happen and will always happen.

It's out of your control. My point is that wargamers tend to come to grips with that realization alot sooner than your average schmuck placing workers and meeples, who seem to prefer to 'blame the dice' on their results instead of just accepting the result for what it is.

They are, after all, just games.

Good Luck and Roll High (for Stone Age, anyway. My ASL brothers probably just cringed...).

meeple

 
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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markgravitygood wrote:
weishaupt wrote:
markgravitygood wrote:
To paraphrase (poorly) Joel Eddy in one of his reviews:

Wargamers tend to not make issues of poor die rolls, and tend not to care or put too much importance on 'winning', but moreso on playing well and enjoying the game itself, the battles won and lost.

Eurogamers tend to fixate on 'winning' and seem to overexaggerate percieved 'bad dice', and call it a poor experience based on those results too often, yet feel confident in their gaming abilities when the dice roll their way and result in a winning game.

I think if you avoid a game because you think the dice treat you poorly or you dislike the inherent luck element that dice bring, you really are not playing the game for what it is.

That's probably more than 2c worth. Keep the change.
I did write that we sat down with the express purpose of examining how a few games unfold, precisely because we didn't want vague impressions to rule our opinions, right?
And yes -- gasp!! -- we did see some serious dice screwage happening.

For what it's worth, I wasn't the one at the receiving end of the screwage. So no need to tell me that I feel bad for not winning and I'm blaming it on the dice. But strangely, in each game, the one who was at that receivind end finished dead last in the scoring...
(I'm told it won't happen between two experienced players. Well, I rarely play those games with just two.)

Well, That's good Francis, because, unbelievably, I did not tell you you felt bad for not winning. I was relaying a general observation about two different styles of board gamers, Right?

Gasp!!

It could be assumed you fall into the eurogamer category based on your 'bad dice' complains in this thread, but I don't want to be the one to label you that way. I was merely offering an outside viewpoint.

A fact: bad dice happen and will always happen.

It's out of your control. My point is that wargamers tend to come to grips with that realization alot sooner than your average schmuck placing workers and meeples, who seem to prefer to 'blame the dice' on their results instead of just accepting the result for what it is.

They are, after all, just games.

Good Luck and Roll High (for Stone Age, anyway. My ASL brothers probably just cringed...).

meeple


Sorry if I sounded a bit emotional. I just don't get why some players get all riled up when I write -- in the variants forum, at that (what do people expect?) -- that I (and most in my group) don't like the big dice swings in Stone Age, hence our own little tweak on the rolls.

As for wargaming, well, I've been doing it for close to half my life now, and I wouldn't swear that most of us have made our peace with bad die rolls. At critical moments, a bad roll can hurt a little more than our cardboard units.

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Eh, it's all good.
 
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