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Subject: Life gain loop? rss

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Immu Table
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In my final encounter with the 40 strength pirate, a peculiar game scenario occurred.

Here is the game state:
1. The Robinson stack is empty and the aging stack is depleted.
2. The following cards are in play:
* Eating (+2 life)
* 2 Strategy (2x exchange)
3. The special ability of one of the Strategy cards is available.

I use Strategy's ability. First, I exchange Eating. It is placed in my discard pile, but since the Robinson stack is empty and I need to draw an exchange card, I shuffle Eating into my Robinson stack, and then draw it. With my second exchange, my other Strategy card is similarly exchanged. I use Eating's ability to gain 2 life. The exchanged Strategy card's ability is available, which can be used to repeat this process.

Is this play legal? I do not see any violations when following the English rules. Please let me know if I've overlooked something, otherwise I'll reluctantly inflate my score by ~60 points!
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immutable wrote:
In my final encounter with the 40 strength pirate, a peculiar game scenario occurred.

Here is the game state:
1. The Robinson stack is empty and the aging stack is depleted.
2. The following cards are in play:
* Eating (+2 life)
* 2 Strategy (2x exchange)
3. The special ability of one of the Strategy cards is available.

I use Strategy's ability. First, I exchange Eating. It is placed in my discard pile, but since the Robinson stack is empty and I need to draw an exchange card, I shuffle Eating into my Robinson stack, and then draw it. With my second exchange, my other Strategy card is similarly exchanged. I use Eating's ability to gain 2 life. The exchanged Strategy card's ability is available, which can be used to repeat this process.

Is this play legal? I do not see any violations when following the English rules. Please let me know if I've overlooked something, otherwise I'll reluctantly inflate my score by ~60 points!

What's not making sense is how you draw the same 2 cards again. First you shuffled the Eating card into your discards, so you had a new Robinson deck to draw from. It's unlikely (but possible) that you'd draw the Eating card first, but even if you do, the second Strategy 2 card will go to the discard pile and you'll draw the next card from the deck.

It isn't possible for you to have defeated the pirates with a 3 card deck, so the question is what is happening with the rest of your Robinson deck?
 
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Immu Table
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Sorry, I failed to clarify that my discard pile was empty too. By this point in the fight, I have played out my entire Robinson stack.
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immutable wrote:
Sorry, I failed to clarify that my discard pile was empty too. By this point in the fight, I have played out my entire Robinson stack.

I'm still not understanding you. Are you saying you've won enough cards to defeat the pirates, but and deleted all but 3 of them? That's simply not possible.

Your aging stack is gone; no problem there. That isn't all that unusual. But the cards in your Robinson deck... hang on a second - are you saying your entire Robinson deck is in play against the pirate? I can see that.

If that's the case, nothing stops you from working that loop until you have all your life back, up to the total you're using in the current game (22 life at level 1, 20 life at Level 4).
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Rob Rob
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Quote:
are you saying your entire Robinson deck is in play against the pirate? I can see that.

In that case and with the very unique situation of having the two strategies (one still available) and a +2 life, yeah - you are in a life loop. Gotta say it's probably a one in a several thousand chance, not common enough to say it breaks the game or anything.
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Robrob wrote:
Quote:
are you saying your entire Robinson deck is in play against the pirate? I can see that.

In that case and with the very unique situation of having the two strategies (one still available) and a +2 life, yeah - you are in a life loop. Gotta say it's probably a one in a several thousand chance, not common enough to say it breaks the game or anything.


Well, you only need some life giving card not necessarily Eating. You also only need one of the exchange 2x cards not both. And then some other exchange card, or even a copy card.

- Use life gain
- use exchange 2x
--- first exchange life gain card
--- then exchange the other exchange card
- Use the other exchange card to exchange the 2x card
- repeat

The hard part may be having all of your cards out during the battle. This will be easier against the bigger pirates. The pirate card draw plus your current life plus +card abilities must be enough to get everything on the table.

Having your ageing deck be empty is helpful but not needed. Provided you can beat the pirates either way or have destroy abilities.

I'm not sure how often this will happen, but now that I know about it it's sure to happen a lot more often than previously thought possible! It may even be worth making a smaller deck and leaving more -3 point hazard cards unclaimed if it means ending the game with all the life tokens.
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It definitely doesn't break the game; you'd basically won before you got there, and the only question is how high your score will be. The trick is getting all of your aging cards disposed of and all of your Robinson deck into play first. That's not going to happen unless you're already in control of the game. Really high scores always depend on having lots of life at the end, and whether that comes from working the +2 life with copy or below the pile repeatedly during earlier challenges or an end of game loop like this one doesn't matter all that much.
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JonBen wrote:
Having your ageing deck be empty is helpful but not needed. Provided you can beat the pirates either way or have destroy abilities.

I'd say it's needed, because otherwise you'll have to shuffle aging cards in with the cards you want to loop with until the aging deck runs out. Having to deal with additional aging cards on every other draw is going to tax the loop beyond any likelihood of keeping it going.
 
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Sphere wrote:
JonBen wrote:
Having your ageing deck be empty is helpful but not needed. Provided you can beat the pirates either way or have destroy abilities.

I'd say it's needed, because otherwise you'll have to shuffle aging cards in with the cards you want to loop with until the aging deck runs out. Having to deal with additional aging cards on every other draw is going to tax the loop beyond any likelihood of keeping it going.


You are gaining life so you can afford to simply draw those cards if need be.
 
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JonBen wrote:
You are gaining life so you can afford to simply draw those cards if need be.

Drawing them is one thing. Keeping the score that lets you beat the hazard as they come into play is another. Now you not only have to have the right cards to keep your loop going, but also extra unused destroy cards lying around. The whole scenario gets less and less likely.

Just to cover all the bases, if you don't have the extra destroy cards to zap the extra aging cards, but have a huge enough strength margin to win even with the penalties, each undestroyed aging card will negate one life in final scoring anyway.
 
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Immu Table
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Sphere wrote:
Drawing them is one thing. Keeping the score that lets you beat the hazard as they come into play is another. Now you not only have to have the right cards to keep your loop going, but also extra unused destroy cards lying around. The whole scenario gets less and less likely.

If you have at least one Realization (1x Destroy) card in play, the life gain loop idea can be used to create a destruction loop (just exchange Realization instead of Eating). This can remove those extra aging cards from the game.

JonBen wrote:
Well, you only need some life giving card not necessarily Eating. You also only need one of the exchange 2x cards not both. And then some other exchange card, or even a copy card.

Nice observation about not requiring two 2x Exchange abilities. Performing this loop has very flexible card requirements... as long as one can draw out their deck!


To further clarify, I had my entire Robinson stack played on the board, which consisted of about 28 cards, 3 of which were Eating and the two Strategies (2x Exchange). 10 cards were drawn from the 40 strength pirate, and the remaining 18 were drawn from +1/+2 draw abilities, spent life points, and a few beneath the piles, copies, and exchanges to bolster the life gain and card draw process.

Thanks for the discussion everyone. The scenario does seem atypical. However, it could arise against the bigger pirates when your deck is heavy on life gain, card draw, and meets the exchange requirements. I agree that this isn't game-breaking - as Sphere stated, you are already in a winning position at this time. It just makes attaining a high score a little easier in the rare case that you can pull it off.
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JonBen wrote:

Having your ageing deck be empty is helpful but not needed. Provided you can beat the pirates either way or have destroy abilities.


I was always under the impression that if the aging deck runs out, you lose (Friday gets too old and dies). Am I completely wrong there?
 
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garbagerunner wrote:
JonBen wrote:

Having your ageing deck be empty is helpful but not needed. Provided you can beat the pirates either way or have destroy abilities.


I was always under the impression that if the aging deck runs out, you lose (Friday gets too old and dies). Am I completely wrong there?


Yes

After describing reshuffling the Robinson deck with a face down aging card we have the following sentence.
Rules page 7 wrote:
When the aging stack is depleted, you do not add more aging cards to the Robinson stack.


No mention of losing the game here or anywhere.

Thematically you can think of the life points as health. Even the young Robinson can die, and the old Robinson can be quite fit. Sure you can draw the whole aging deck and not have to worry about drawing more... but if you do that you drew the whole aging deck!! Jumping crap-attack watch out!
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JonBen wrote:
Sure you can draw the whole aging deck and not have to worry about drawing more... but if you do that you drew the whole aging deck!! Jumping crap-attack watch out!

It's definitely possible to win after drawing the full aging deck.
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Sphere wrote:
JonBen wrote:
Sure you can draw the whole aging deck and not have to worry about drawing more... but if you do that you drew the whole aging deck!! Jumping crap-attack watch out!

It's definitely possible to win after drawing the full aging deck.


Indeed!
 
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Mike Bazynski
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I've only played level 4 difficulty twice, but without any infinite loop combos I finished with 20 (max) and 19 life points. so yes, the loop works, but doesn't necessarily inflate your score over other strategies - you are still limited to the 20 token points available.

(interestingly enough in both games I was down to 0 life at some point in the yellow phase)
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