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Subject: Lots of ICE My Haas Bioroid Deck rss

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Rayne Smith
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I posted my Anarch deck here awhile ago, and got a lot of good input. So, I thought I would post this and see what everyone thinks!

The idea I had for this deck is trying to maximize on Accelerated Beta Test. Due to this I have filled my deck with a lot of ice, and quite a bit of it is fairly pricey. I do have a lot of resource generation to offset the cost of the ICE if ABT or Priority Requisition doesn't install/rez it for me. I was wanting to include precog, but the influence cost was too much for what I was trying to do.

Identity:
Haas-Bioroid: Engineering the Future (Core)

Total Cards: (49)
Agenda (9)
Accelerated Beta Test (Core #55) x3
Priority Requisition (Core #106) x3
Private Security Force (Core #107) x3

Asset (7)
Adonis Campaign (Core #56) x3
PAD Campaign (Core #109) x2
Melange Mining Corp (Core #108) x2

ICE (27)
Enigma (Core #111) x3
Heimdall 1.0 (Core #61) x3
Ichi 1.0 (Core #62) x3
Rototurret (Core #64) x3
Viktor 1.0 (Core #63) x3
Wall of Static (Core #113) x3
Archer (Core #101) x2
Hadrian's Wall (Core #102) x1
Wall of Thorns (Core #78) x3
Tollbooth (Core #90) x2
Shadow (Core #104) x1

Operation (6)
Archived Memories (Core #58) x3
Hedge Fund (Core #110) x3

Total Agenda Points: 21
Total OOF Influence: 15
Jinteki: 3
NBN: 4
The Weyland Consortium: 8
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James 3
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pretty solid and focused. i like ice heavy corp decks.

Archer is better when you have 1 point agendas you can toss to it, which nbn and weyland have, but haas doesnt. SO you could consider cutting one, since you are likely to only want to rez it via a scored agenda combo rather than forfeiting an agenda. no denying its potent though!

shadow is pretty so so, espeically in this stack, but i guess you were scrambling for 1 influence cards. you could run an ice wall in its spot, which is more effective to me.

or cut both and include 1 copy of precognition and another melange mining corp.

pretty solid though!
 
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Jeremy Owens
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LOL

I was just emailing back and forth with a buddy earlier today about an almost identical deck. Instead of Archer x2, Hadrian's Wall x1, Tollbooth x2, Shadow x1, I have Archer x3 & Tollbooth x3. Other than that... exactly the same.

I really want to give it a spin because I'm unsure just how consistent it will be, but even if it's horribly inconsistent it'll be fun to play just to see it "go off" at least once. I dreamed a dream of rezzing multiple 8 cost ice for free...

I originally had this idea because I have said to a few people now "It's okay, but I think you're trying to do too much at once" about their deck build. This deck strips it down to the bare essentials.... 6 of my 9 agendas are about rezzing ice for free. 3 of those are helped by a high % of ice in the deck. So lots of ice and big *&%^ing ice at that... the BFI9000.

Edit: Including Archer in this deck is going under the assumption that you'd never rez it on the terms listed by the card... only by Priority Req or ABT.
 
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Do you guys not think that Corp. Troubleshooter & Experiential data have value in such decks? (Not saying they do, just curious about the thinking either way.)
 
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Joseph Courtight
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I think corp. Trouble shooter is really powerful in a Weyland Deck
 
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Noah D

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Looks familiar,
 
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Rayne Smith
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flamejuggler wrote:
pretty solid and focused. i like ice heavy corp decks.

Archer is better when you have 1 point agendas you can toss to it, which nbn and weyland have, but haas doesnt. SO you could consider cutting one, since you are likely to only want to rez it via a scored agenda combo rather than forfeiting an agenda. no denying its potent though!

shadow is pretty so so, espeically in this stack, but i guess you were scrambling for 1 influence cards. you could run an ice wall in its spot, which is more effective to me.

or cut both and include 1 copy of precognition and another melange mining corp.

pretty solid though!


You are right, I was scrambling for a 1 influence card. I wanted the deck to have a very high ICE count and Shadow seemed better than Hunter to me. I'll try a couple of games with your suggestions. I'm mostly worried about reducing my ICE count, it is part of what helps keep the results of ABT consistent. I would like to have a precog though...

malhaku wrote:
LOL
I was just emailing back and forth with a buddy earlier today about an almost identical deck. Instead of Archer x2, Hadrian's Wall x1, Tollbooth x2, Shadow x1, I have Archer x3 & Tollbooth x3. Other than that... exactly the same.


I was considering Archer x3, but I'm sharing this card pool (2X core sets) with someone and they have a Weyland deck with X2 Archer, so 3 wasn't an option. Tollbooth is nice, but I would rather have a larger splash of different ice than to run X3 of them. I will give tollbooth X3 a run though and see how I like it.

malhaku wrote:

I really want to give it a spin because I'm unsure just how consistent it will be, but even if it's horribly inconsistent it'll be fun to play just to see it "go off" at least once. I dreamed a dream of rezzing multiple 8 cost ice for free...


Surprisingly it plays fairly consistent, most times I score ABT it hits at least 1 ICE, sometimes 2 or 3. If nothing else, I have a lot of credit generation to rez the ICE myself. So far, I've won a lot more games than I've lost.

I also have a dream of rezzing multiple 8 cost for free is nice. It's happened a couple of times and it's always fun to see the runner's face when it does.

malhaku wrote:

Edit: Including Archer in this deck is going under the assumption that you'd never rez it on the terms listed by the card... only by Priority Req or ABT.


That is the assumption, though I have had to rez Archer the normal way before. I've only done it two times I can think of, but it was a win or lose situation at the time.

AstroLad wrote:
Do you guys not think that Corp. Troubleshooter & Experiential data have value in such decks? (Not saying they do, just curious about the thinking either way.)


I can definitely see merit of these cards in the deck. However, as I mentioned above, I'm trying to get the ratio of ICE I have in the deck as high as possible so I can get the most out of ABT. That is why I cut them in the end. I want all of my non-ICE cards to make me money or fetch out some of the unfortunate cards that get thrown into my Archives.
 
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Jeremy Owens
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Ahhh... I've only had the deck in theorycraft. I didn't realize you'd actually been playing it. I'm jealous.

Thus far I have only played the starter decks to give all the cards a fair shake before I start the deckbuilding, but it's starting to get tough to keep to that. The alchemist in me wants to start mixing...

Part of the reason I thought of each ice x3 is consistency... the other part is doing it the way I mentioned makes for 9 barriers, 9 sentries, & 9 code gates. Even mix to mess with the runner optimally breaker-wise.

A suggestion my buddy made that I want to pass along. Chum probably wouldn't be a bad addition to this mix. Only thing better than an archer is an archer with +2 strength and the potential to provide Snare level Net damage. It's only 1 influence so it's very portable. I think it may fit the strategy of the deck better than Shadow (but then I haven't played the deck so that's speculation on my part.)
 
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Jeff Lindsay
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If you're looking for 1 influence ice to add in surprised not to see ice wall. Probably the best 1 influence ice in the core set. I have a deck very similar to this one. Ice that traces for tags doesn't fit too well with this deck since outside of PSF it doesn't really gain much extra oomph from the runner being tagged.
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Rayne Smith
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malhaku wrote:
Ahhh... I've only had the deck in theorycraft. I didn't realize you'd actually been playing it. I'm jealous.

Thus far I have only played the starter decks to give all the cards a fair shake before I start the deckbuilding, but it's starting to get tough to keep to that. The alchemist in me wants to start mixing...

Part of the reason I thought of each ice x3 is consistency... the other part is doing it the way I mentioned makes for 9 barriers, 9 sentries, & 9 code gates. Even mix to mess with the runner optimally breaker-wise.


Currently my setup is 10 barriers, 8 codegates, 9 sentries. So, I'm not far off from the 9/9/9 that is there. I like the other options of ICE so that they have to prepare for different varieties of ICE. So far it has worked well for me, but I'll definitely give your ideas some consideration. As I said as well, I don't have access to 3X archer

malhaku wrote:
A suggestion my buddy made that I want to pass along. Chum probably wouldn't be a bad addition to this mix. Only thing better than an archer is an archer with +2 strength and the potential to provide Snare level Net damage. It's only 1 influence so it's very portable. I think it may fit the strategy of the deck better than Shadow (but then I haven't played the deck so that's speculation on my part.)


I had considered Chum, I just wasn't sure how viable it would be since most of my ICE in Bioroid. I'll replace Shadow with it and see how things run. In all honesty, Shadow doesn't fit very well so I'm thinking Chum will be a better fit.

Hrrrmmm wrote:
If you're looking for 1 influence ice to add in surprised not to see ice wall. Probably the best 1 influence ice in the core set. I have a deck very similar to this one. Ice that traces for tags doesn't fit too well with this deck since outside of PSF it doesn't really gain much extra oomph from the runner being tagged.


I had looked at ice wall, but I already had more barriers than other types, so I didn't want to put another barrier into the deck. That's why I went with Shadow. I'm pretty happy with my barrier selection right now, but if I decide to remove some barriers I'll definitely revisit Ice Wall.
 
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Travis R. Chance
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Hmm. I think Precog is pretty strong in this deck. By committing the influence you are exchanging consistency with density, which I think is far better.
 
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Darko
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Forfeit an agenda with Archer dont look so good when HB has expensive ones. Archer is not neccesary in your deck. +1 hadrian wall would be better.
 
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Bier Fuizl
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Donniedarko01 wrote:
Forfeit an agenda with Archer dont look so good when HB has expensive ones. Archer is not neccesary in your deck. +1 hadrian wall would be better.


Most of the time you'll rez Archer for free with ABT or PrioReq. Forfeiting an agenda would only be a last-ditch effort. But even that might win you the game when a surprise Archer trashes two essential breakers.
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John Tatta
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As I said in a previous thread, this is the corp deck that I'd had the most success with, although a bit different. I'm playing two Archer at the moment and haven't really wanted the third. I think adding a third will open up the possibility of drawing 2 when you'd much rather Rez it with ABT. Tollbooth is the Ice that really makes the deck tick. Flipping a tollbooth with ABT is pretty much the best thing you can be doing other than Archer of course.

I definitely recommend Corporate Troubleshooter, at least as a 1-of to give it a shot. It's pretty devastating when you stockpile a ton of credits with the game winning agenda in your server and then popping it on an Archer or even on a RotoTurret at any point in the game. Also, if you catch your opponent without any actions left on a run, popping it on an Ichi is pretty devastating too.

I really like the deck a lot, though.
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Alex Rockwell
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Lots of ice is the way to play HB. At 27 I think you can even cut three ice if you want and be fine, though there is nothing wrong with 27 if you like it that way.

Some thoughts:
*I'd try to fit in the third Pad Campaign.

* Enigma (Core #111) x3
* Viktor 1.0 (Core #63) x3

6 cards that get wrecked by a Yog.0. I would cut these in half. Your choice on what way to do that. Both cards are similar, I like Victor as a protector of random Pad or Adonis campaigns. I dont like them as well in my main data fort as they fall off later in the game.


* Archer (Core #101) x2

I started with 1 archer and went down to 0 after testing. Yes, its the biggest ice. Yes, its a complete wrecking as a surprise. However, there is no way to surprise someone with it without paying an agenda. A Beta test or Priority Requisitioned Archer will simply be a big Sentry. Played earlier, its weak against Forged Activation Orders, and when flipped up, some decks can kill it with Parasite, or they can try to ignore its data fort and race you by running something else.

Test it and see how you feel about it.


* Hadrian's Wall (Core #102) x1

It does stop you hard, but it does nothing bad to the runner when you flip it up on them, and its $10. While we like to get ice for free, a lot of the time we are still paying for them, and we would like our expensive ice to hit the runner hard when we flip them up. Its also 3 influence so I would cut this.


* Wall of Thorns (Core #78) x3
I havent been using this and am considering adding it to my deck, but I'm influence short. How do you feel about the quantity of expensive ice in your deck? Does it work?


* Tollbooth (Core #90) x2
Needs to be 3!! This is the best big ice in the set, after accounting for price. No icebreaker gets through it well other than Femme Fatale. Everything pays through the nose to pass it. Surprise value of the loss of 3 credits is strong too.


* Shadow (Core #104) x1
How do you find this card to be?


* Archived Memories (Core #58) x3
I love these and want to go up from only 1 in my deck. They are great against Noise, as well as saving you from bad Beta Tests. I also find them useful for regaining used up Adonis Campaigns, or ice killed by Forged Activation Orders/Parasite.




Stuff I would consider adding:

* Corporate Troubleshooter

It messes up their math in a run. If used to massively pump a Rototurret it can be crushing. Also, you can simply play it into the fort you are building up beore the agenda, and see if they waste money running it.

* Ice Wall. With that much ice some of it needs to be cheap. Ice Wall is $1 but is effective! And if they get a small wallbreaker out, it can be advanced if needed (though I rarely do). I recommend three.

* Chum. Same thing, you need some cheap ice thats still effective. Chum in front of a face down ice, with some money in your hand, is the best deterrent of all time. They simply CANNOT continue. Its weak lategame, but its so good early/mid.And its cheaper than something like an Enigma thats also weak lategame. Chum is AMAZINGLY efficient. I run three.

* Biotic Labor.
This allows you to play and score a Beta Test in one turn, which if it hits well can give you an insane advantage. It also helps you to not have to advance agendas in advance of the turn you score them, allowing your to make any random asset you play down behind ice look threatening. (It could be an agenda that you can score next turn!!). This can induce costly runs to no benefit for the runner. In my opinion, in an HB deck, making all your assets into a threat/trap your opponent might waste resources getting to is superior to trying to trap them with aggressive secretaries.

* San San City Grid.
It is a Biotic Labor that sticks around and creates a data fort that is an enormous threat. But it costs 3 influence.

* Red Herrings.
Wrecks their math some more. Your big data fort might be runnable...once. For all their money. Red Herrings breaks their back.

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Noah D

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Alexfrog wrote:

Lots of advice and observations...


Agree with all these points.

There's definitely an instinctual desire to get Archer in there, but having no one point agendas make it a risky proposition. You're hoping to rez for free, but many times you're going to have to pay costs.

Ice Wall should almost be a given for any deck given the limited options at this time. HB isn't an exception.

Tollbooth, best of the bunch.

etc.
etc.
 
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Rayne Smith
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Thank you for the in depth explanations for your suggestions! It gave me a lot of insight into some cards and made me think of some possible new uses for cards I had previously overlooked. I'll respond now

Alexfrog wrote:
Lots of ice is the way to play HB. At 27 I think you can even cut three ice if you want and be fine, though there is nothing wrong with 27 if you like it that way.


Part of the reason for the 27 ICE was trying to get the most out of ABT without precognition. I will look into cutting back, maybe try a game or two with fewer ICE.

Alexfrog wrote:

Some thoughts:
*I'd try to fit in the third Pad Campaign.


With all of the money generation in the deck I haven't really missed the third Pad Campaign at all (it was a part of the original deck). I rarely have issues with running out of credits, do you think that the 3rd Pad Campaign would make that much of a difference?

Alexfrog wrote:

* Enigma (Core #111) x3
* Viktor 1.0 (Core #63) x3

6 cards that get wrecked by a Yog.0. I would cut these in half. Your choice on what way to do that. Both cards are similar, I like Victor as a protector of random Pad or Adonis campaigns. I dont like them as well in my main data fort as they fall off later in the game.


I might be able to play with my influence to get some Chum or Cell Portal in, but I didn't have a lot of room to get some Code Gates in that Yog.0 doesn't wreck. I do plan on adding another Tollbooth, but I can't really see myself removing many of these. However, I have felt the burn of Yog.0 on these ICE before.

Alexfrog wrote:

* Archer (Core #101) x2

I started with 1 archer and went down to 0 after testing. Yes, its the biggest ice. Yes, its a complete wrecking as a surprise. However, there is no way to surprise someone with it without paying an agenda. A Beta test or Priority Requisitioned Archer will simply be a big Sentry. Played earlier, its weak against Forged Activation Orders, and when flipped up, some decks can kill it with Parasite, or they can try to ignore its data fort and race you by running something else.

Test it and see how you feel about it.


You do make some good points here. ABT into an Archer and not paying it's agenda cost. That's not really the best reason to keep it in the deck and removing them would free up some influence for other ICE. I may run some games without them and see what happens.

EDIT: What would you recommend that I use in place or Archer? Right now I have barrier9/code gate9/sentry6. I would like to fill out the sentry a bit more. I'm considering Neural Katana or I could replace it with 3X shadow in get some more inf room. What do you think?

Alexfrog wrote:

* Hadrian's Wall (Core #102) x1

It does stop you hard, but it does nothing bad to the runner when you flip it up on them, and its $10. While we like to get ice for free, a lot of the time we are still paying for them, and we would like our expensive ice to hit the runner hard when we flip them up. Its also 3 influence so I would cut this.


The more I play this deck the more I agree about this card. It just doesn't seem to make a big impact, and if I'm going to pay 3 influence for a card it needs to make a bigger splash.

Alexfrog wrote:

* Wall of Thorns (Core #78) x3
I havent been using this and am considering adding it to my deck, but I'm influence short. How do you feel about the quantity of expensive ice in your deck? Does it work?


This card has been a strong staple for my deck so far. It's expensive enough to be a good target for ABT or Priority Req, but it's cheap enough to rez and surprise people with still. I really like this card a lot.

Alexfrog wrote:

* Tollbooth (Core #90) x2
Needs to be 3!! This is the best big ice in the set, after accounting for price. No icebreaker gets through it well other than Femme Fatale. Everything pays through the nose to pass it. Surprise value of the loss of 3 credits is strong too.


I agree this needs to be 3. I'm going to be updating my deck in the next couple of weeks, I'll post an updated list soon.

Alexfrog wrote:

* Shadow (Core #104) x1
How do you find this card to be?


It's a decent enough card. I don't really do much with the tags, but I've found that some of the runners will leave the $2 subroutine in order to have more credits for them to break the next ICE. So, it's a decent enough money maker, but I don't think it's going to stay in the deck.

Alexfrog wrote:

* Archived Memories (Core #58) x3
I love these and want to go up from only 1 in my deck. They are great against Noise, as well as saving you from bad Beta Tests. I also find them useful for regaining used up Adonis Campaigns, or ice killed by Forged Activation Orders/Parasite.


100% agree here. I find 3 to be very valuable, and I normally use at least 2 of these when I play.


Alexfrog wrote:

Stuff I would consider adding:

* Corporate Troubleshooter

It messes up their math in a run. If used to massively pump a Rototurret it can be crushing. Also, you can simply play it into the fort you are building up beore the agenda, and see if they waste money running it.


I may need to revisit this card. I could see it playing out nice.

Alexfrog wrote:

* Ice Wall. With that much ice some of it needs to be cheap. Ice Wall is $1 but is effective! And if they get a small wallbreaker out, it can be advanced if needed (though I rarely do). I recommend three.


Part of my problem with this ICE is that there is a very large Noise population with the group I play with so these would be easy to destroy. Though, now that I'm thinking about it, they would be spending quite a few credits to destroy a 1 credit ICE.

Alexfrog wrote:

* Chum. Same thing, you need some cheap ice thats still effective. Chum in front of a face down ice, with some money in your hand, is the best deterrent of all time. They simply CANNOT continue. Its weak lategame, but its so good early/mid.And its cheaper than something like an Enigma thats also weak lategame. Chum is AMAZINGLY efficient. I run three.


I've recently played a few games that I included Chum in the deck. I like how it's playing and will be including it in version 2.0

Alexfrog wrote:

* Biotic Labor.
This allows you to play and score a Beta Test in one turn, which if it hits well can give you an insane advantage. It also helps you to not have to advance agendas in advance of the turn you score them, allowing your to make any random asset you play down behind ice look threatening. (It could be an agenda that you can score next turn!!). This can induce costly runs to no benefit for the runner. In my opinion, in an HB deck, making all your assets into a threat/trap your opponent might waste resources getting to is superior to trying to trap them with aggressive secretaries.


That is some good points for Biotic Labor. I originally took them out to limit the number of events in the deck, and save most non ICE cards for money generation. I'll run a few games with this back in and see how it works for me.

Alexfrog wrote:

* San San City Grid.
It is a Biotic Labor that sticks around and creates a data fort that is an enormous threat. But it costs 3 influence.


I considered this card, but as you mentioned, 3 inf is hard to come by in my deck...

Alexfrog wrote:

* Red Herrings.
Wrecks their math some more. Your big data fort might be runnable...once. For all their money. Red Herrings breaks their back.


I do like this card, if I reduce the number of ICE I have I will probably try and slide this in somewhere.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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Kaic wrote:

With all of the money generation in the deck I haven't really missed the third Pad Campaign at all (it was a part of the original deck). I rarely have issues with running out of credits, do you think that the 3rd Pad Campaign would make that much of a difference?


Probably not, its just one card. But I find I really like starting with at least one money generator Asset, and protecting it.


Alexfrog wrote:


EDIT: What would you recommend that I use in place or Archer? Right now I have barrier9/code gate9/sentry6. I would like to fill out the sentry a bit more. I'm considering Neural Katana or I could replace it with 3X shadow in get some more inf room. What do you think?


I'm considering adding a Neural Katana to my deck, the surprise damage is great. But I would have to cut my San San for it. On the plus side, it would give me one Wall of Thorns too. With that change I would be running barrier9/code gate8/sentry7, which is reasonable balance, since I don't really consider Heimdall as a Barrier. You don't break it with an icebreaker, you break it with clicks.


Quote:

(Ice Wall)
Part of my problem with this ICE is that there is a very large Noise population with the group I play with so these would be easy to destroy. Though, now that I'm thinking about it, they would be spending quite a few credits to destroy a 1 credit ICE.


Please kill my Ice Wall with your parasite, and not my Tollbooth/Ichi/Heimdall/etc.
 
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Mario Angel
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Alexfrog wrote:

Please kill my Ice Wall with your parasite, and not my Tollbooth/Ichi/Heimdall/etc.


I would never allow those to get destroyed by Parasite. Purge all virus counters at the right time and he will have wasted a Parasite.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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WinterWolfGeek wrote:
Alexfrog wrote:

Please kill my Ice Wall with your parasite, and not my Tollbooth/Ichi/Heimdall/etc.


I would never allow those to get destroyed by Parasite. Purge all virus counters at the right time and he will have wasted a Parasite.


Datasucker shrinks your ice during my run and your ice dies.
 
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Allan Clements
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Corporate Troubleshooter is awesome. Works well with cheap ICE that they expect to be able to pass (and that you suggest above to remove from the deck which makes no sense to me )

Especially good against Yog.0 as it cannot be pumped, so pump that Code Gate and wreck their plans. (and ideally trash some programs Yog.0 included).

 
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Alex Rockwell
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Corporate Troubleshooter is definitely really good. I love a 6 strength Roboturret that blows up your Ninja, and then stops you from getting an Agenda.
 
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