Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Aeroplanes: Aviation Ascendant» Forums » Rules

Subject: Black token in subsidy area rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jennifer Schlickbernd
United States
Santa Clarita
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
According to the rule on page 3, you can take the black subsidy token at any time:

Quote:
The action round continues until one player chooses
to (or is forced to) take the black token from the
subsidy box. When this token is taken, the action
round ends immediately. Remaining players do not
take further actions this round.


However the rule on page 7 doesn't say this, but it doesn't specifically rule it out:

Quote:
5. Take a Subsidy
Take a £1 bond from the subsidy box. Once there
are no bonds left in the subsidy box, you must take
the black token instead. Taking the token triggers
the end of the current era. If you took the token, you
receive the starting player die to begin the next era.

So what is the correct rule? The reviews that I've read/seen both seem to be playing where you can't take the black token until all of the subsidies are taken. It totally changes the game depending on how you are playing.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam O'Brien
United States
Raleigh
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Even Cleverer Overtext
badge
Every time someone activates this overtext, it takes a year off my life. Hover often please!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I had the same question after my first read-through. It would really break the game if you could take it whenever you want. I think the "chooses to take" line is the confusing bit. I believe the choice is whether or not to take the subsidy action, not whether or not to take the black pawn.

But I agree that it is poorly phrased in the rules. I am quite certain the answer is that the money has to run out first.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Weber
United States
Ellicott City
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

Agree the rules are somewhat poorly worded, but earlier it says that the player must take one of five actions, one of which is taking a subsidy. It defines taking a subsidy as taking $1, and that you take the black pawn to end the round only once the subsidy tokens are gone. At least that's how we have played it in three games thus far; any other interpretation doesn't seem to make sense.

Nonetheless, an official clarification from Mayfair or Martin Wallace would be helpful.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Wordelmann
United States
Carol Stream
IL
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

All of the bonds must be taken before a player can choose to (or is forced to) take the pawn.

Bill Wordelmann
Mayfair Games
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Fisk
United Kingdom
Stoke on Trent
Staffordshire
flag msg tools
Come on you Seagulls! Sami Hyppia's Blue & White army!
badge
That's weird. This bit used to mention Shire Games, and tell you all how wonderful we are. But it seems to have got deleted. Let's see what happens this time ....
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jschlickbernd wrote:
According to the rule on page 3, you can take the black subsidy token at any time:

Quote:
The action round continues until one player chooses
to (or is forced to) take the black token from the
subsidy box. When this token is taken, the action
round ends immediately. Remaining players do not
take further actions this round.


It doesn't say you can take it any time. It says the round continues until someone chooses to take the black token (instead of, say, placing another airport), or is forced to tke the black token (because he cannot do any of the other actions).



N.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mik Svellov
Denmark
Copenhagen N
EU
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jschlickbernd wrote:
According to the rule on page 3, you can take the black subsidy token at any time:

Quote:
The action round continues until one player chooses
to (or is forced to) take the black token from the
subsidy box. When this token is taken, the action
round ends immediately. Remaining players do not
take further actions this round.
Nick is correct. This rule says nothing about what you may or may not take from the subsidy box, It simply states when the round ends.


Quote:
5. Take a Subsidy
Take a £1 bond from the subsidy box. Once there
are no bonds left in the subsidy box, you must take
the black token instead. Taking the token triggers
the end of the current era. If you took the token, you
receive the starting player die to begin the next era.
This is where the rules state what you can take from the subsidy box, and it is quite clear that can only take the black token when there are no more bonds.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Earley
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Related question:

Page 7: Subsidy Action

Quote:
If you took the token, you receive the starting player die to begin the next era.


Page 3: Step 2 - Action Round

Quote:
If you are holding the first player die, you are the first player. Play begins with you [et cetera]...


Page 8: End of Era Upkeep

Quote:
The player who took the subsidy token, ending the previous era, rolls the first player die. Pass the die to the resulting player and begin the new era.


If someone takes the subsidy marker to end the current era, are they the start player of the next era's first round, or are they just rolling the die to determine the next round's start player?

I realize the rules quoted above explicitly say the latter. But they say it in the End of Era section, which for some reason overlaps logically with the income and start of round steps in its explanations. Between that and the duplicated bullet point for refilling the passenger display, this section strikes me as just wonky enough that it's worth confirming intent.

Because following the rules as printed, it seems like the player who ended the era essentially lost a turn for no benefit?

I'd rather just have nine 1-pound bonds in the subsidy box and end the era when the 9th bond is taken...either that, or let the player who ended the era by losing a turn be guaranteed start player status. (This latter idea would have the added benefit of letting you just remove the overlapping bullet points in the End of Era section without the logical glitch of having to address an exception that applies to step 2 of the next round...)


2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Wordelmann
United States
Carol Stream
IL
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Christopher:

As the rules state, the player who takes the subsidy pawn will roll the die to determine the start player at the beginning of the next era.

Quote:
Because following the rules as printed, it seems like the player who ended the era essentially lost a turn for no benefit?


Selecting the subsidy pawn can have a benefit that can definitely be much better than receiving a one-pound bond...

Bill Wordelmann
Mayfair Games


1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Earley
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Thanks for the confirmation.

Vulch wrote:

Selecting the subsidy pawn can have a benefit that can definitely be much better than receiving a one-pound bond...


And that benefit would be...?

I suspect you're thinking the benefit is that you end the round so other players are caught unawares and have excess capacity, but there's an 8-bond countdown to warn players not to take new planes when the era is ending, so this seems unlikely, unless another player or two help you do it in a coordinated attempt to rein in the leader...? And even then, everyone taking a subsidy except for the final person at least got a 1 pound bond for their efforts...

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Earley
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Thinking about it some more, here's a semi-refutation of my own idea:

If the person who takes the subsidy token isn't the last player of the round, then not only does he "kind of" lose an action (you can argue the benefits of ending the era as an action) but so do the people behind him in turn order. And heck, if the first player of the round ends the era, then we're back to everyone getting an equal number of actions that affect their game state prior to scoring.

So in that light, giving the person who took the subsidy token claim to first player status might be too powerful, so randomizing at the start of the era is the right way to go.

Geez, I just talked myself out of my original opinion...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.