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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Ion cannon, Y wing, questions rss

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The Man
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What is the point of canceling the dice? What could have happened without this?
 
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Christopher Ross
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More damage. The canceling of the dice refers to the Y-Wing only being able to hit for 1 damage no matter what is rolled. The defender's dice aren't the ones being canceled and they are free to dodge all your hits which kept happening to me in my last game. So the ion canon wasn't my friend.
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Chris Campos
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jedijawa74 wrote:
More damage. The canceling of the dice refers to the Y-Wing only being able to hit for 1 damage no matter what is rolled. The defender's dice aren't the ones being canceled and they are free to dodge all your hits which kept happening to me in my last game. So the ion canon wasn't my friend.


If you read the rules on the ion cannon card it says that you attack a ship, if the attack hits you apply one damage, and THEN you cancel all the dice.

So I think the dodge dice and evade tokens have to be applied to all the hits you roll on your 3 attack dice before the hit is reduced to 1.

As for the Y wings being useful... they are not, in my opinion that limited in their roll in this game because proton torpedoes are very effective against other starfighters, and they are the only ship that can carry two of them.
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Alex Eding
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kashre wrote:

As for the Y wings being useful... they are not, in my opinion that limited in their roll in this game because proton torpedoes are very effective against other starfighters, and they are the only ship that can carry two of them.


I might have to do that. I forgot that they could hold 2, and I lost Wedge and Biggs in the first 4 rounds against 4 TIEs and Vader. Then it was a matter of time with the Y before they pinged me hit for hit... I'd have been more of a challenge if I'd had extra torps.

though Wedge gone in round 2 meant the dice were just not my friend that game...
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Greg Lott
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LeximusMaximus wrote:
kashre wrote:

As for the Y wings being useful... they are not, in my opinion that limited in their roll in this game because proton torpedoes are very effective against other starfighters, and they are the only ship that can carry two of them.


I might have to do that. I forgot that they could hold 2, and I lost Wedge and Biggs in the first 4 rounds against 4 TIEs and Vader. Then it was a matter of time with the Y before they pinged me hit for hit... I'd have been more of a challenge if I'd had extra torps.

though Wedge gone in round 2 meant the dice were just not my friend that game...


The Ion Cannons don't suck either. 360 firing arc, and a hit makes that ship a sitting duck in the next round.
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Terence Lee
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The y-wing seemed a little weak to me too.

is the ion cannon 360 degrees? for some reason I thought it was because it was on a turret but I didn't read that it was 360 anywhere. did I miss that? couldn't find it anywhere so I played it as having a normal firing arc
 
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Henrik Johansson
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tlee33 wrote:
The y-wing seemed a little weak to me too.

is the ion cannon 360 degrees? for some reason I thought it was because it was on a turret but I didn't read that it was 360 anywhere. did I miss that? couldn't find it anywhere so I played it as having a normal firing arc

Ion cannon can shoot 360 degrea. It's on the card. It doesn't specificaly say "360", but rather "Attack one ship (even a ship outside your firing arc)" so the effect is the same.
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Joseph Woodworth
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I assume this means you also cannot get a critical hit with the ion cannon as all hits are cancelled and one damage is applied
 
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Henrik Johansson
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Yes, that is correct. Using the ion cannon has exactly two possible result.
1. miss
2. one normal damage and ionize the target.

Nothing more, nothing less
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Nico
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What happens if you have two (or more!) Y-Wings with Ion Canons in your squad and you manage to hit the same target twice in a given combat round. I'd figure the target would be given a second damadge card, but no other Ion Token...or what do you think?
 
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Ricardo Donoso
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Sounds reasonable.
 
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Josh Wilson
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Cut_ wrote:
What happens if you have two (or more!) Y-Wings with Ion Canons in your squad and you manage to hit the same target twice in a given combat round. I'd figure the target would be given a second damadge card, but no other Ion Token...or what do you think?

You can put a second Ion token on it if you want, but if you refer to the rules card, you will see that you remove all ion tokens after performing the straight 1 maneuver in the next turn.
Notice token(s) is plural. So bottom line is that putting more than one Ion token on a small ship is superfluous. However, the Large ships like the Falcon will require 2 Ion tokens for the Ion effect to take effect.
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Thiago Aranha
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I find the Ion effect to be a little weak. They could at the very least made it so that the targeted ship also can't perform any Action after making his obligatory straight 1 move.
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Barry Hood
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Loophole Master wrote:
I find the Ion effect to be a little weak. They could at the very least made it so that the targeted ship also can't perform any Action after making his obligatory straight 1 move.


It's only weak if you fail to capitalise on it, i.e. you're basically only using it to deny that ship one turn of movement. Knowing exactly where a specific ship is going to be on its next turn is a HUGE advantage in a game where hidden movement is the key mechanic. It's not the attack itself that does the damage, it's being able to correctly position your X-Wings for the follow up attack that should pretty much give you a guaranteed kill - it's like being able to look at a card or two from your opponent's hand in poker, potentially very powerful, but only if you do something with the information.
 
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Thiago Aranha
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delinear wrote:
It's not the attack itself that does the damage, it's being able to correctly position your X-Wings for the follow up attack that should pretty much give you a guaranteed kill

How do you "guarantee a kill" in this situation? Sure, you might be able to get right behind your opponent and get a short range bonus to your attack. But the target will still have an action for an evade, with the way attacks work you'll be lucky to get a hit in. If he's lucky he might even be able to do a barrel roll that gets him out of your firing arc.

As I see it, you'd mostly use the Ion Turret if you have nobody in your firing arc. As a "I might as well use this cause I'm not attacking anybody this turn", it's a great asset. But I don't see why you'd choose it over your standard attack, specially if you're in close range.
 
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Three Headed Monkey
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Loophole Master wrote:
delinear wrote:
It's not the attack itself that does the damage, it's being able to correctly position your X-Wings for the follow up attack that should pretty much give you a guaranteed kill

How do you "guarantee a kill" in this situation? Sure, you might be able to get right behind your opponent and get a short range bonus to your attack. But the target will still have an action for an evade, with the way attacks work you'll be lucky to get a hit in. If he's lucky he might even be able to do a barrel roll that gets him out of your firing arc.

As I see it, you'd mostly use the Ion Turret if you have nobody in your firing arc. As a "I might as well use this cause I'm not attacking anybody this turn", it's a great asset. But I don't see why you'd choose it over your standard attack, specially if you're in close range.

That's not it's only use though. You can use it to keep an enemy ship facing the wrong way and headed away from the dogfight. You could use it to slow down howlrunner so that the faster TIEs have to move out of his range 1 bubble. You can get a ship to crash into an asteroid. The point is that the Ion cannon is a utility weapon. It isn't powerful by itself but can be fantastic when used in the right situation.

And sure, sometimes attacking at close range with the Y-Wings primary weapons would be better, but at range band two I'd rather attack with the Ion cannon, even if it can only do one damage, because the chance of doing a damage at all is higher.
 
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Thiago Aranha
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Yeah, I suppose it does offer some interesting tactical advantages.
 
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Kevin Keefe
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kashre wrote:

As for the Y wings being useful... they are not, in my opinion that limited in their roll in this game because proton torpedoes are very effective against other starfighters, and they are the only ship that can carry two of them.



Using the Y-Wing, I found that having only 2 attack dice and being unable to shoot protorps at range 1 made all my torpedoes completely ineffective, especially at range 3. Rolling 2 red vs. 3-4 green equals a complete miss, even with the "focus for free" effect they have.

In my experience, it would be really nice if the torpedoes added a red die as well. It is also true that dice hate me, so that could be the problem too.
 
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Thiago Aranha
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You do remember that targets don't get the "range 3 bonus defense die" if you're attacking them with a secondary weapon like the Proton Torpedoes, right?
 
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Nico
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Karadek wrote:

Using the Y-Wing, I found that having only 2 attack dice and being unable to shoot protorps at range 1 made all my torpedoes completely ineffective, especially at range 3. Rolling 2 red vs. 3-4 green equals a complete miss, even with the "focus for free" effect they have.



I don't have my game or cards in front of me, but I seem to recall that the Proton Torpedoes let you roll more than just 2 red attack dice, more like 4? Then without the benefit of the range-3-green-defence-bonus-die being awarded to the target due to the PT nature as a secondary weapon, I'd say that thing is a monster! At ranges 2 and 3 naturally.
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Eric B.
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Loophole Master wrote:


As I see it, you'd mostly use the Ion Turret if you have nobody in your firing arc. As a "I might as well use this cause I'm not attacking anybody this turn", it's a great asset. But I don't see why you'd choose it over your standard attack, specially if you're in close range.


The Turret rolls 3 Attack Dice while the primary weapon (outside of range 1) is only rolling 2 Attack Dice. Against TIEs I always use the ion cannon even when I'm shooting at a target that's at Range 2 in my front arc.

Sure, the Ion Cannon is capped at dealing only 1 Damage, but it's really unlikely a 2 Die Attack against 3 Agility will do more than one damage anyways, and the primary 2 Die attack is far more likely to do no damage versus the Ion Cannon.

At Range 1 it's a bit trickier. You need to decide whether the chance for dealing more than 1 Damage outweighs ionizing the target, and that's going to depend on what the board looks like. It's worth noting, though, that even a 3-Die Attack with primary lasers isn't terribly likely to deal 2+ Damage to a TIE, which generally pushes me toward using the Ion Cannon anyways since trapping the target with a 1 Forward White is usually more tempting than a statistically unlikely extra damage or two.
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Thiago Aranha
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Copy that, Rogue 13. You make a good point. Over.
 
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Three Headed Monkey
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Also if your Y-Wing is behind the TIE it is shooting at, if you hit it with the Ion cannon you can just follow it and keep on stunning it until it is dead.
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Henrik Johansson
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Cut_ wrote:
Karadek wrote:

Using the Y-Wing, I found that having only 2 attack dice and being unable to shoot protorps at range 1 made all my torpedoes completely ineffective, especially at range 3. Rolling 2 red vs. 3-4 green equals a complete miss, even with the "focus for free" effect they have.



I don't have my game or cards in front of me, but I seem to recall that the Proton Torpedoes let you roll more than just 2 red attack dice, more like 4? Then without the benefit of the range-3-green-defence-bonus-die being awarded to the target due to the PT nature as a secondary weapon, I'd say that thing is a monster! At ranges 2 and 3 naturally.

Yes, torps give you 4 attack dice. All secondary weapons have their own attack value printed on their cards. They allways use this attack value, regardles of what the ships primary attack value is.
 
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Ricardo Donoso
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and secondary attacks don't provide bonus dice, neither for attacker nor defender.
 
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