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Subject: Cavalry Blitz? rss

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John Labelle
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1984 MB Edition

Cavalry can move two.

May a Cavalry unit (with a General) move into an an opponent's "unoccupied" province for its first move, then keep moving and do its second move for the turn?

Or, does moving into the opponent's province and "conquering" it stop the Cavalry right then and there even though it was unoccupied and no combat took place?

And similarly:
May a Cavalry Unit (with a General) move through and into TWO "unclaimed" provinces at the start of the game?

In other words: Can Cavalry "Blitz" through provinces?

This is a question debated every game with my game group. 

Thanks!
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Moshe Callen
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I'm not look at the rules and so may be mistaken but i believe so.
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Mark Lohr
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There's NO QUESTION about it... YES, you can do that!

That's really what makes having Cavalry worthwhile.
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Mark Lohr
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After digging out the MB rule book for Conquest I couldn't really find anything that "specifically" said that you could "blitz" with your Cavalry, but there is also nothing saying that you can't.

It DOES say that Cavalry can move 2 territories per turn, so... really, the ONLY way they could move 2 territories (at the beginning of the game, anyway), would be if they could move THROUGH 2 "unclaimed" provinces. (That makes sense, doesn't it?) I mean, otherwise, they would have to wait until you conquer additional territories before they could actually move 2 spaces... that just doesn't seem right at all.

It states on page 6 in the rulebook that "Whenever a legion or galley moves into an "enemy-occupied" province or sea zone, combat results". Well... then if the province IS NOT "enemy-occupied", then obviously combat would NOT happen. So... a leader with some Cavalry shouldn't have to "STOP" at just one province, they should be able to move into TWO.

On page 11 under "Conquering a Province" it states that "A Province owned by another player but left undefended can be conquered automatically when the attacker moves into it." It doesn't say anything about having to STOP when you conquer an "empty" or "undefended" province. Because the rulebook doesn't ever actually say that you "CAN'T" blitz with your Cavalry, I would say that because of it's TWO movement capability, that you can do that. (That's the way that I always played).

I've always played that a leader with a Cavalry can just "hop in" an undefended enemy province, (take over the province), and then hop right back out (to the province that you started in). Or, if there were TWO undefended empty provinces... you could take both.

I'm sure that must be the way that Cavalry were "INTENDED" to be used... otherwise, you are really "limiting" there TWO movement.
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Mark Lohr
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If you have any OTHER questions about the 1984 MB version of Conquest... feel free to ask. I've played quite a few games of Conquest over the years (I am an original owner of the game from when it first came out).

I've played games with 2, 3, 4, 5 and even 6 players. I've found that games with either 4 or 6 players are usually the most "even".

When I was first learning how to play this game, I had some questions about "road" movement... I thought that that was kind of confusing. According to the rulebook, roads really don't give you any kind of movement advantage until you have at least 3 cities in a row. (2 cities with one road in-between them doesn't help you at all). I've always felt that "that" was kind of weird...


Of course, you can always come up with some "HOUSE" rules... and this game could probably use a few of those...
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John Labelle
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Yeah, it is the type of ruling you make because it doesn't say "you can't". Not because it says "you can".

That's why it's always discussed before we play. I agree that it would be lame if you couldn't. But, sometimes we do play that you can't and its just not as fun. The opposition likes to use the "cavalry are not tanks in Axis and Allies" argument.
Booooo!

Ha! I like the road rule!
It makes you build cities for more than just economic reasons.
All roads lead to.....

Thanks!
 
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Mark Lohr
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Well... the thing I "didn't" like about the road rules is that having TWO cities (with a road inbetween) doesn't help you at all. It just seems like after spending THAT MUCH money on those cities that even just the one road should help out in movement.

That's just something that "I" would change about the rules. (Well... that and the Catapult's combat advantage thing).


So... how many games of Conquest have you guys played so far??
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John Labelle
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How many?
Ha!
Like you, we played it from the beginning. It was one of our favorite games and still comes out from time to time. Many, many, many times.

It also has a greater meaning for me because my two game designing partners and I used our first copy for parts to make our prototypes when we started our design company.
In fact, our first prototype of "Heist" that was later to become the game Clue: The Great Museum Caper was a Conquest box lid.
And you can see here that in a later prototype, there is a Statue in the museum that may...look...a little familiar:

Oh, and the bottom of the cameras are antiaircraft guns from Axis & Allies.
We realized that we destroyed our favorite game and soon bought another. I still have it and its the same one we use to this day.
 
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Mark Lohr
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The Great Museum Caper!! Man, I own that game too! Great game...

So, you and your buds designed that game. How did you guys get into the business in the first place?

Oh... and the paintings in that game, they are real paintings, right?

Do you know all the titles for each painting in the game?
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John Labelle
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In high school two good friends and I were part of a school game club.
Later on, we decided to try to design our own games.  A girlfriend of one of us knew of an agent company who showed toys and game prototypes to industry.
We made a sky scrapper game, had a meeting, they showed it to Milton Bradley where we almost sold it. Milton Bradley decided on the game "Hotels" over ours. 
For the next fifteen years, that's what we did. Prototype after prototype. "Heist" became "Clue The Great Museum Caper". 

The pieces of "Conquest of the Empire" were used over and over again in our prototypes.
We use to refer to it as "The Father of All Games". Corny, I know. But, look at what is in the game! Ships, cavalry, little cardboard markers, gold, silver, buildings and roads!
A Caesar became a statute in our museum prototype. 

Our original prototype paintings were just black and white copies of real paintings. Later on, Parker Brothers did a terrific job doing mini paintings that resemble original artwork in style. Not real masterpieces. There is one that kind of looks like "Starry Night" by Vincent van  Gogh, but it's not, etc.
Glad you like "Museum Caper". Thanks!
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Mark Lohr
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I'm just surprised that you had that question about the Cavalry in Conquest. It seems to me that the Cavalry should always be able to move 2 spaces with the only reason for stopping being moving into a "combat" situation. After going through the rulebook with a fine-toothed comb, I never read anything that would suggest that you couldn't do that.

Is the game designer here on this site (or do you know anyway of contacting him)? Is he even still alive? Idk...

So... I'm guessing it was Parker Brothers idea to take that game that you guys had designed and turn it into a "Clue" game (basically just adding the name to the game and the player's). How did you guys feel about that? I mean... it could've just been called "Heist", right? Or, "The Great Museum Heist"... why did it have to be Clue?

It's funny that you mentioned "Hotels". That's another favorite game here at my house (although the "Boomerang" hotel is WAY TOO strong in the game).

How come Hasbro doesn't still make EITHER of those games anymore? They are both "classics" in my opinion. Plus... there are A LOT of classic Milton Bradley and Parker Brothers games from my childhood that they don't make anymore, like... King Oil, Prize Property, Fireball Island, Stop Thief, etc... why doesn't Hasbro remake some of those "classics"?
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John Labelle
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The reason for the question is because it always came up when we played.
Again, the rules don't say you can specifically, so... someone's going to argue it. I just thought I'd throw the question out there and I'm happy I did.

"Conquest of the Empire" was based on the game "6 Caesars" by Lawrence H. Harris. Look him up. You'll be surprised at what he did.

I wrote about "Museum Caper" and it's beginnings in this thread: Changing the Locks
It should answer some of your questions.
Parker did Clue and thought it would fit in the line. We were very happy to be part of that great title.

Why are some of the great games of the past not reprinted? I don't have a clue. (No pun intended)
Why ours isn't? Well, we have suggested it.

Thanks!
 
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Mark Lohr
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Ya, I noticed that Larry Harris, Jr. is the guy behind all the "Axis & Allies" games.

Are YOU going to contact him with that Cavalry question? It'd probably be better coming from a fellow game designer like yourself...
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John Labelle
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No, I'm good. YOUR response is good enough for me.
A bit off topic here and there, but a good exchange none the less.
Thanks!
 
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