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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Barrel rolling "backward" rss

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Dave Graffam
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By the rules as written (on page 8), you can barrel roll and actually move your ship a short distance backward along its axis of movement. It's counter-intuitive for me, and barrel rolling seems powerful enough without it.

To avoid going backward, we're thinking about house-ruling that you have to place the movement template aligned with the front edge of the ship base, just like in the example image in the rulebook.

Is this much ado about nothing, or does this aspect of barrel rolling bother you, too?

[This question has been resolved. Feel free to discuss, but I don't care.]
 
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Greg Lott
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Much ado about nothing. That house rule would nerf the coolest maneuver in the game.
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Ed Sagritalo
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I've not seen the slight adjustment available with a barrel roll to be a game changer over just the barrel roll itself. Getting into or out of a firing arc hasn't been down to millimeters of a difference.

I guess it could happen but then the person would have to eye it pretty accurately as they place their ship as you wouldn't check firing arcs until the model was placed. At that point, I wouldn't allow them to make an adjustment to get the right firing solution.

But as this is how the mechanic works, you would have to abide by it at tournaments. House ruling is always your groups decision. I would be interested in hearing how often this makes a difference as I haven't seen it yet.
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Ed Sagritalo
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DagobahDave wrote:
By the rules as written (on page 8), you can barrel roll and actually move your ship a short distance backward along its axis of movement. It's counter-intuitive for me, and barrel rolling seems powerful enough without it.


In regard to it being counter-intuitive, I look at it as the barrel roll doesn't just occur at the end of the movement but is actually occurring during the movement. Otherwise, the barrel roll should always move the ship forward as well given inertia (I don't think the Star Wars universe has introduced inertia-less drives have they?). The back-wards movement is actually the pilot pulling back on the thrust as they enter the roll or being not totally along the axis bisecting the middle of the ship causing a slight turn or list to one side.

In any case, I don't see it as being counter physic laws and the difference between what might actually occur versus a simple game mechanic used to represent the same.
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Dave Graffam
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As long as barrel rolling can't happen during the combat phase using some kind of upgrade, I'm okay with the rules as written. I thought I'd seen an ability that allowed barrel rolling at some odd time, but I seem to have misread or misremembered.

Much ado about nothing, then.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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You have to remember what the abstraction is doing. It's not barrel rolling right at the end of the movement, it's happening all throughout the movement, which is why you get the flexibility of anywhere on the side.

I think it works great as-is and wouldn't mess with it.

-shnar
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Joseph Gesumaria
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I haven't gotten my copy yet but the way it sounds is making me think a "backwards barrel roll" is just a non aviator way of saying "Immelmann loop" or "Turn". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immelmann_turn . Kind of like a loop but with a turn to put make you go in the opposite direction...

Like I said I could be wrong and there could be an Immelmann manuever card but it's just what it sounded like to me lol.
 
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Ken Coble
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Immelmann wrote:
I haven't gotten my copy yet but the way it sounds is making me think a "backwards barrel roll" is just a non aviator way of saying "Immelmann loop" or "Turn". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immelmann_turn . Kind of like a loop but with a turn to put make you go in the opposite direction...

Like I said I could be wrong and there could be an Immelmann manuever card but it's just what it sounded like to me lol.


No, the Immelmann (called "Koiogran Manuver" in this game) is a totally different maneuver than what's being discussed here. The barrel roll being discussed is a special action a TIE fighter can take after its regular maneuver, displacing the fighter a small amount to either side and a smaller amount forward of backwards, using the placement of the shortest maneuver template somewhere on the side of the fighter's base and then replacing the fighter with its base somewhere on the other side of the template.

The Immelmann/Koiogran is a straight maneuver where you reverse the direction of the fighter after moving to the end of the template.
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The Galaxy is Just Packed!
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Don't think about it in terms of "I move, then I move again," but that you are actually doing your barrel roll while you are performing your move action. The net result is where you end up.

Same with other actions. The move and action take place simultaneously in terms of verisimilitude, but in game terms they are broken into two segments to so the game won't last 5 hours.

EDIT: And then I noticed that everyone said the same thing.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Don't forget X-Wings can barrel roll too, if they have the Expert Handling ability.

-shnar
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Joseph Gesumaria
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flintlocklaser wrote:
Immelmann wrote:
I haven't gotten my copy yet but the way it sounds is making me think a "backwards barrel roll" is just a non aviator way of saying "Immelmann loop" or "Turn". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immelmann_turn . Kind of like a loop but with a turn to put make you go in the opposite direction...

Like I said I could be wrong and there could be an Immelmann manuever card but it's just what it sounded like to me lol.


No, the Immelmann (called "Koiogran Manuver" in this game) is a totally different maneuver than what's being discussed here. The barrel roll being discussed is a special action a TIE fighter can take after its regular maneuver, displacing the fighter a small amount to either side and a smaller amount forward of backwards, using the placement of the shortest maneuver template somewhere on the side of the fighter's base and then replacing the fighter with its base somewhere on the other side of the template.

The Immelmann/Koiogran is a straight maneuver where you reverse the direction of the fighter after moving to the end of the template.


Gotcha like I said I don't have my copy and haven't looked at the available manouvers yet. Thank you for letting me know it's in the game already. As you can tell by my name I quite like that little piece of flying.
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Ken Coble
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Immelmann wrote:
Gotcha like I said I don't have my copy and haven't looked at the available manouvers yet. Thank you for letting me know it's in the game already. As you can tell by my name I quite like that little piece of flying.


No worries, glad to help. Hope you get your copy soon - if you're like everyone I've played it with so far you are going to love it! Mechanically simple, but a heck of a lot of fun.
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Randall Garlington
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Immelmann wrote:


The Immelmann/Koiogran is a straight maneuver where you reverse the direction of the fighter after moving to the end of the template.


It's funny because when I first saw the maneuver on the dials my first thought was that was an Immelmann turn, which I was introduced to in the old Ace of Aces book dogfight game. The maneuvers on these dials are just like a lot of the ones in those picture books and made the learning curve much easier for this game.
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wxman40 wrote:
It's funny because when I first saw the maneuver on the dials my first thought was that was an Immelmann turn, which I was introduced to in the old Ace of Aces book dogfight game. The maneuvers on these dials are just like a lot of the ones in those picture books and made the learning curve much easier for this game.

I was just thinking this last night! I think that one of the many reasons I fell in love with X-Wing (after just one play so far) is that it's like playing Ace of Aces with a really cool board/spatial element that only makes it even better. But most of the decisions you're making are essentially the same as you make in the AoA books.
 
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Stephen Foulk
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wxman40 wrote:

It's funny because when I first saw the maneuver on the dials my first thought was that was an Immelmann turn, which I was introduced to in the old Ace of Aces book dogfight game. The maneuvers on these dials are just like a lot of the ones in those picture books and made the learning curve much easier for this game.


Yes THAT is the Immelmann but that's not what this is. The barrel roll is not on the manuever wheel, its an additional manuever based on pilot/ship ability.
 
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Marc Nelson Jr.
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I just tried out the game last night, and came here to look this up. The ability to make a sharp 1 turn and barrel roll "backwards" lets the TIE almost pivot in place.

But now I can cite this thread and tell people I'm not cheating.
 
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marcnelsonjr wrote:
I just tried out the game last night, and came here to look this up. The ability to make a sharp 1 turn and barrel roll "backwards" lets the TIE almost pivot in place.

But now I can cite this thread and tell people I'm not cheating.


Or just read the actual rules for the action. They are pretty self explanatory.

Quote:
Barrel roll
Ships with the icon in their action bar may
perform the Barrel roll action, which allows them to
move laterally and adjust their position while still facing
the same direction. To barrel roll, follow these steps:

1. Take the [ 1] maneuver template.

2. Place one end of the template against either the
left or right side of his ship’s base. (The template
may be placed anywhere along the side of the
ship’s base as long as no part of the template
goes beyond the front or back edge of the base.)


3. Holding the template firmly in place, lift the ship
off the play surface. Then place the ship at the
opposite end of the template, making sure no
part of the template goes beyond the front or
back edge of the base.
The front of the ship must
face the same direction it was facing when it
started the barrel roll.


Also, my strategy with 3 B-Wings:

 
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