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Subject: 7 wonders, Flash Point, or Lord of Waterdeep? rss

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Jep M
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Which to buy if I had to choose?
Flash Point; Fire Rescue 2nd edition
7 Wonders
Lords of Waterdeep
      89 answers
Poll created by JepMZ

I got a polish glory to rome alrready. But I'm wondering what to buy next?
 
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Pablo Schulman
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Dude... They are SO diferent.

Lords of Waterdeep is a good game, pretty easy to explain, but I find the theme a turnoff. Yes, I'm strange I know. A good introduction to worker placement.

7 Wonders is pretty straightforward as well, and seems to be high praised. I didn't play it so I can't give you my opinion about gameplay.

Flash Point is a cooperative game, so it's a hit or miss depending on your group. You need to like cooperative games to be able to enjoy it. It's a challenging game even with the family rules game. I like it, and my nongamer family enjoyed it.
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Johannes Sjolte
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It really depend on what kind of game you want. If you just look at the quality of gameplay I would say that 7 Wonders is the better game, but it's probally also the one that is least different from Glory to Rome.
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Ian Toltz
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7 Wonders and Lords of Waterdeep are both excellent, but also very, very different.

Lords of Waterdeep works well with 2-5, 7 Wonders works well with 3-7 (I personally like it with 2 as well).

Neither are particularly complicated, but Lords of Waterdeep might be easier to teach. 7 Wonders has a lot of symbols that you need to go over with people.
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They're very different games, so for me it would come down to player count. With 2p, Flash Point, as I don't like 7 Wonders with 2. With 3 or 4 players, either one. With a bigger group, 7 Wonders. I have not played LoW.
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P.D. Magnus
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I like all three, but they are very different.

Lords of Waterdeep is a great with 3 or 4 players, but slows down a bit too much with 5. It is a worker placement game; it's a good example of the genre, but it does not do anything terribly original. If you already have one or more worker placement games, then LoW is not a must buy. But if you don't have one yet and you don't need a game that will play with more players, it's worth getting.

7 Wonders scales very well. It works differently with 2 (because it uses different rules) and with 3 (because every player is a neighbor to every other player), so it shines most with 4-7. People say that Fairy Tale has similar game play, but it's not like there is a whole genre that works like this.

Flashpoint is cooperative. The theme is pretty well integrated into the game play. So if you especially want a cooperative game or a firefighting game, get it.

I voted for 7 Wonders, because it's the one of the three that I'd identify as a brilliant design. But all three are fun to play. It depends on what size your group is and on what kind of experience you want to have.
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Dan Edelen
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JepMZ wrote:
Poll
Which to buy if I had to choose?
Flash Point; Fire Rescue 2nd edition
7 Wonders
Lords of Waterdeep
      89 answers
Poll created by JepMZ

I got a polish glory to rome alrready. But I'm wondering what to buy next?


The only answer to this poll: Yes.
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Robert Beachler
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Pablo is right, you couldn't have picked more different games if you tried.

7 Wonders is a well done building and structure game although really it is more of a solo game that you play and then score against others. I find it boring as all get out because of that, games should have interaction and this one just doesn't.

Flash Point is a great co-op that can be both tough and frustrating but a whole lot of fun if you have a group that works well and gets into it. Granted co-ops always run the risk of someone playing leader and telling everyone what to do which can be a pain.

Lords of Waterdeep is a creative worker placement game that essentially steals all it's ideas from other games but it works well and is a solid gateway for D&D RPGers to get into Euros. I also think it scales very well for a worker placement game which not all do.
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Kevin B. Smith
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P.D. got the game descriptions right. I have played all three, and each of them is a great game for the right group (and a dud for the wrong group).

I won't vote without hearing more about your group size, but if it helps you:

I have never felt compelled to own 7 Wonders, partly because it seems like enough other people own it. I would only suggest it with 6-7 players, because there are games I like more with 3-5. I wouldn't like 7W with 2p.

I bought LoW on a whim, before the buzz tsunami arrived. I think it plays differently but fine with 2p or 5p, as well as 3 or 4, but I just don't love it. It seems like everyone around here owns it and wants to play regularly, so no need for me to own a copy. I sold my copy as soon as my friend bought his.

I was a playtester of Flash Point, and liked it enough to kickstart it. I don't play it that often, mostly because I have a lot of co-ops competing for table time. But I still have it, and still rate it highly.
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Johannes Sjolte
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What these three games have in common is that it's relative new games. People talk about them alot because the are new. If I where you I would go for something other than theses three games.

7 Wonders is a very good game, but it also is a card game where you build a "structure" to give you points, so it has some similarities with Glory to Rome. If you only have very few games I think I would go for something different.

Flash Point: Fire Rescue is a Cooperative Play style game, and it's my impression that there are better games of that type out there ... maybe Pandemic or Ghost Stories. Now I havn't played Flash Point: Fire Rescue so that's a second hand impression.

Lords of Waterdeep is a Worker Placement and for me the expirence was very dry compared with the theme. If you want something similar but better you could try Agricola. Now Agricola is a little heavy comepaired to Lords of Waterdeep, so maybe you should try it before you by it. Another option is Tribune: Primus Inter Pares. It's a game about Roman Republic in that same genre, but with a little more flavor.
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Jep M
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I'm glad I made this thread before work! Thank you for the many helpful replies. Here's the thing: I'm so hyped and in love of all three games but my game group is pretty much just a 2 player group at most. I'm not affiliated to any gaming group mostly because they're too darn far away and time conflict. So I probably can't have a game that takes a long time.

I been keeping an eye on coolstuffinc, but I think the 100 dollar minimum is a bit too steep for me to spend at the moment. It'd be better if I spend on one game than many.

Zalco, you are right about these games being new. I'm totally drowning in hype as we speak, haha. I question if it is okay to give in to consumerism

I haven't played any other games before yet. Pandemic looks like a lot of fun, but I guess, honestly, I liked the figurines in Flash point more.

Oh man, Tribune seems like a really good candidate too. But it's all OoP and expensive at the moment. Tho, I really do love the LoW's classic rpg theme, heh.
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Some other alternatives to discover instead of the games you mentioned:

Glen More instead of 7 Wonders. Glen More has a nice spatial/tile laying element. It is similar to 7 Wonders in that you are drafting tiles (instead of cards) and gain points in a variety of areas. It only plays four maximum, but works well with two or three as well.

I like the gameplay of Pandemic more than Flashpoint. Flashpoint's theme is pretty cool, but so is Pandemic's. And if you get the expansion, you also get petri dishes to hold the disease cubes!

For an introductory worker placement game, you may also want to look at Stone Age or, my own preference, Egizia. If your heart is set on the D&D theme, however, then you have obviously already found your match.
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Scott Douglass
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7 Wonders is definitely my favorite of the 3, but all of them are good games. 7 Wonders scales well from 2-7, has simultaneous play so it doesn't take longer with more players, and has the perfect amount of interaction. The interaction is important, and there is just enough that it doesn't slow down game play. I didn't enjoy 2 player at first, but it works well once you know the mechanics well enough to play the dummy player quickly.
 
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Gleb Semenjuk
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JepMZ wrote:
I liked the figurines in Flash point more.

Aren't the figurines only for kickstarter pledgers and boxes come with pawns? I may be wrong on it, but it's better to give a false alarm, then to see a regret.
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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JepMZ wrote:
Here's the thing: I'm so hyped and in love of all three games but my game group is pretty much just a 2 player group at most.

That definitely tips me away from 7W for you. If you need a quick-playing somewhat meaty game for 6 or 7, it's one of very few options, so is a solid choice. Outside that niche, less so. There is a lot of debate about how well it works with 2p. Generally I'm not fond of shared/neutral/dummy mechanisms, but I know a lot of people are fine with the one in 7W. For me, it sounds like it would change the nature of the game to be more interactive, where I prefer less interaction. I think there are better 2p card games and light-civ games out there.

Quote:
I haven't played any other games before yet. Pandemic looks like a lot of fun, but I guess, honestly, I liked the figurines in Flash point more.

Not sure the figurines should make the decision for you. For me, both are solid games. Pandemic is a bit less random, but the mechanics are more abstract. With Pandemic, you collect sets of cards to win the game. With Flash Point, you win by moving around the board (house) and carrying victims to safety.

Quote:
I really do love the LoW's classic rpg theme, heh.

The theme in LoW is there, and not there. The art is nice, and the flavor text is there if you choose to read it. On the other hand, the "adventurers" are cubes, so almost everyone starts saying "give me 2 oranges" instead of "fighters". You have to make a conscious effort to stay in the theme. A set of DnDeeples helps a lot, but of course that adds more than $20 to the cost. (If I owned the game and played it regularly, I would absolutely buy DnDeeples for it).

There is debate about how well LoW works with 2p. The nature of the game definitely changes a bit, as is the case with many games. You have more workers, so you get more sense of accomplishment. It is less likely that you'll get blocked out of your 2nd and 3rd choices each round. There is no leader-bashing or king-making. So that's all good. On the downside, some of the intrigue cards become rather weak, and buildings are a bit less valuable. Personally, I think I prefer it with 2p because I hate king-making so much, but I'm probably in the minority on that.
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Gleb wrote:
JepMZ wrote:
I liked the figurines in Flash point more.

Aren't the figurines only for kickstarter pledgers and boxes come with pawns? I may be wrong on it, but it's better to give a false alarm, then to see a regret.


At Barnes & Noble it comes with plastic figurines now.
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Johannes Sjolte
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JepMZ wrote:
Oh man, Tribune seems like a really good candidate too. But it's all OoP and expensive at the moment.

Okay, Sorry I didn't know. You can still buy it in the shops here in Denmark at the normal price.

Good luck gaming
 
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Dan Edelen
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Zalco wrote:
Lords of Waterdeep is a Worker Placement and for me the expirence was very dry compared with the theme. If you want something similar but better you could try Agricola. Now Agricola is a little heavy comepaired to Lords of Waterdeep, so maybe you should try it before you by it. Another option is Tribune: Primus Inter Pares. It's a game about Roman Republic in that same genre, but with a little more flavor.


In one word: No.

Agricola is a game you build up to. Plus, it's a game that will divide people (especially those just starting their board gaming hobby) into camps of love/hate and cool/boring FAAAAR more than Lords of Waterdeep, which is more universally well received. Agricola is absolutely NOT a gateway game, while Waterdeep is one of the better gateways to come out in the last five years.

For sure, try Agricola. But try it by playing it before buying it. "Buy to try" is a bad idea with Agricola, plus it is not cheap, which makes it even less suitable for a new gamer.
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Johannes Sjolte
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Wasn't that the same that I said: Try it before you buy it.

I found Lords of Waterdeep very bland, but then again I could be the only one. Most of the other persons that I played with said they liked it. The person that owned the game sold it after a few month, even though he was one of the persons that had said they liked it.
 
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Kay Lee
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I think what you really need are two player games
i would recommend summoner wars master set for one on one skirmish card battles
Or ticket to ride nordic
Or pandemic
Or android netrunner
Or morels
Or omen reign of war
Or other coop games
 
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Marty Mcfly
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I would go with Lords of Waterdeep. This one is my latest game and everyone who has played this game just fell in love with it. 7 Wonders is good, but at 25 min a game, it`s more of a filler. Lords isn't more complicated to learn and teach, but offers more depth and takes a little more than a hour to play. Just an excellent game on all front.
 
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Matt Clark
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Lords of Waterdeep and 7 Wonders are the "go-to" games for my gaming group right now and I love playing both. I voted for Lords of Waterdeep for you just because I really like the experience as a 2 player game as well as 3-5.

You picked some great games that are generally very well received, so I think you'll be happy with any of them.
 
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Trent Boardgamer
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I know this post is late to the party, but thought I'd add this.

Who the second player is matters. For instance I can get my wife to play Lords or Waterdeep and 7 Wonders, but not Flashpoint. When only playing with 2 we prefer Waterdeep. Now here's the simple thing to devide those 2.

2-4 players I'd recommend LoW.

4 or more players 7 Wonders.

Flashpoint... Need the right group. I find it a harder sell. (I haven't played it but apparently Police Precinct is worth a look at if your into this type of game and is supposedly an easier sell???).

Yes there is some overlap between LoW and 7 WOnders and many would argue each is better with less or more players. I'm merely sharing what my fluctuating group goes for. BTW we use both as fillers for more involved games (Whilst waiting for players or if we finish early) or LoW when people pike for some other games better with more players, last minute.
 
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