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Descent: Journeys in the Dark» Forums » Rules

Subject: Special effects across stairs rss

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Frank Otte
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Four last questions for today, thankfully not connected to overly special situations to describe. They have to do with stairs. Rather simple, but I was not able to find an answer in the official documents.

(1) Can a knockback be done across staircases?

(2) If the answer for (1) is yes, can big creatures be knockbacked across staircases? I know, that big monsters cannot move through stairs. But I also know, that with knockback, it's irrelevant, if the crossed spaces are traversable or not, only the target space counts.

(3) Can a reach attack be done across staircases? The FAQ only seem to forbid area attacks across staircases, but Reach is no area attack.

(4) Area attacks are forbidden through staircases. What does that mean for Blast?

(a) That the target space of a Blast may not be chosen beyond the staircase?
(b) That the Blast damage area does not extend across staircases?
(c) Both, (a) and (b)?

 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Hermjard wrote:
Four last questions for today, thankfully not connected to overly special situations to describe. They have to do with stairs. Rather simple, but I was not able to find an answer in the official documents.

(1) Can a knockback be done across staircases?


No. Knockback moves the target up to three spaces away. Even though they may only cost 1MP to move between, and can be seem through and even allow limited attacks through, staircases are not 1 space away from each other.

Quote:
(2) If the answer for (1) is yes, can big creatures be knockbacked across staircases? I know, that big monsters cannot move through stairs. But I also know, that with knockback, it's irrelevant, if the crossed spaces are traversable or not, only the target space counts.


The answer for 1 is not yes. :)

Quote:
(3) Can a reach attack be done across staircases? The FAQ only seem to forbid area attacks across staircases, but Reach is no area attack.


Vanilla, its seems yes, since reach is based on Range 2 and 'range' counts two staircases as 1 additional 'range' from one staircse to another.

ACs, no, since Reach there uses 'number of spaces apart', and staircases are not 1 space apart.

Quote:
(4) Area attacks are forbidden through staircases. What does that mean for Blast?

(a) That the target space of a Blast may not be chosen beyond the staircase?
(b) That the Blast damage area does not extend across staircases?
(c) Both, (a) and (b)?



(b) is already explicit in the FAQ. (a) is arguably what the rule says, except that blast attacks are not actually blast attacks during the target-space-choosing portion of the attack sequence - indeed, not until after surges have been spent, and some 'balst' attacks never become blast attacks at all (no base Blast and not enough surges spent).
So there is an argument that (a) does not apply. It does not, after all, say 'potential blast attacks are prevented' only actual AoE attacks. cannot pass through (and the blast radius effect). I'm not sure that argument has been fully resolved really, though I may be forgetting something.
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Retired Hurt

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I'm a bit lost about (3). I thought that range was just the number of spaces apart (counting only one of both extremities). In that case, the forulations should be synonymous.
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Merrimac wrote:
I'm a bit lost about (3). I thought that range was just the number of spaces apart (counting only one of both extremities). In that case, the forulations should be synonymous.


Range is done by counting the number of spaces, which sounds like how far apart the spaces are, but in the case of stairs is not.
Stairs are not 1 space apart from each other, but when you count spaces for range, they count as if 1 space apart*. (You can also move from one to the other for 1MP, but they are still not 1 space apart).

* Actually I don't even think we are told this anywhere, but its the only way we can make shooting a non-AoE attack through stairs work, so we assume this is the rule.
 
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Frank Otte
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There is another special ability which recently came up to our attention regarding stairs. It's the swarm ability. If, for example the target of a swarm attack is on stairs, while the attacker, a kobold, is (on the same side) adjacent to these stairs, and another kobold is on the corresponding stairs on the other side - does the attacker get the swarm bonus?

I think, the answer to this question depends on the fact, if corresponding stairs count as adjacent to each other, or not.

I assume, that they are not, because Aura is also based on adjacency, and its not effective over stairs.

Btw, the same could be asked about the skill Alertness.

 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Hermjard wrote:
There is another special ability which recently came up to our attention regarding stairs. It's the swarm ability. If, for example the target of a swarm attack is on stairs, while the attacker, a kobold, is (on the same side) adjacent to these stairs, and another kobold is on the corresponding stairs on the other side - does the attacker get the swarm bonus?

I think, the answer to this question depends on the fact, if corresponding stairs count as adjacent to each other, or not.

I assume, that they are not, because Aura is also based on adjacency, and its not effective over stairs.

Btw, the same could be asked about the skill Alertness.



They are adjacent for attacks, explicitly.
Swarm isn't working 'across' the stairs anyway, it simply works on the figure that has it. The effect is based on the number of (friendly) figures adjacent to the target. Whether they count depends on what the adjacency is for since adjacency works across stairs for some circumstances (attacks, LOS etc), but not others (grapple, Aura etc).
I think it is pretty obvious that it should count - the swarm is clearly due to 'attack' type effects.
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