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Subject: Religious terminology differences explained rss

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Moshe Callen
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I was asked here to explain a comment that Christians and Jews use the terms "blasphemy" and "Name in vain" differently. Although I don't see a lot of room for discussion, I don't see why not to respond.

I'll not state the Christian definitions. Most people will have an idea what they are. To a religious Jew, "blasphemy" means cursing G-d and Torah using a Divine Name. Basically it's sedition nd incitement because the deed must be done publicly and trying to get others to rebel against the legal authorities. Remember, Torah is first and foremost a legal system and is the actual day to day set of laws religious Jews as a community govern themselves by. By the way, no human court has in our Law had the actual right to pass a death sentence in over two thousand years.

"Name in vain" refers to swearing falsely in a Jewish court by a Divine Name. Basically this is a prohibition of perjury.

I hope that answers the questions.

EDIT:
Wow. So many typos!
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Eugene
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So Jews are not forbidden to say "Jesus fucking Christ"?
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Moshe Callen
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garygarison wrote:
So Jews are not forbidden to say "Jesus fucking Christ"?

LOL

Saying it to people who find doing so rude is still bad manners.
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whac3 wrote:
U was asked url=http://boardgamegeek.com/article/10118867#10118867]here[/url] to explain a comment that Christians and Jews use the terms "blasphemy" and "Name in vain" differently. Although I don't see a lot of room for discussion, I don't see why not to respond.

I'll not state the Christian definitions. Most people will have an idea what they are. To a religious Jew, "blasphemy" means cursing G-d and Torah using a Divine Name.Basically it's sedition nd incitement because the deed must be done publicly and trying to get others to rebel against the legal authorities. Remember, Torah is first and foremost a legal system and is the actual day to day laws religious Jews as a community govern themselves by. By the way, no human court has in our Law had the actual right to pass a death sentence in over two thousand years.

"Name in vain" refers to swearing falsely in a Jewish court by a Divine Name. Basically this is a prohibition of perjury.

I hope that answers the questions.


Thank you, Moshe. I am astounded at how many Christians and Christian faiths have skewed this into not ever saying the name of God or Jesus unless in prayer or reverence. Saying "Oh My God!" or just "Jesus!" is considered blasphemous and sinful.

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whac3 wrote:
garygarison wrote:
So Jews are not forbidden to say "Jesus fucking Christ"?

LOL

Saying it to people who find doing so rude is still bad manners.


I recently read a Christian site defining what blasphemy was and when it would apply. I did feel it was trying to change the definition of blasphemy law as still applying in some less tolerant countries to today's standards though. I found it very unconvincing and, as always seems the case, subjective morals were paraded as objective ones as inspired by god.

Anyway I'm not a Christian and blasphemy was never a big issue in my upbringing, so I'll leave it at that.

Oh and the Jewish use of it seems reasonable to me as it applies to a possible tort or harm to another rather than a victimless crime. In fact it is a crucial aspect of law irrespective of any belief or lack of belief.
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whac3 wrote:
garygarison wrote:
So Jews are not forbidden to say "Jesus fucking Christ"?

LOL
Saying it to people who find doing so rude is still bad manners.

True, but I'd say the Torah trumps Emily Post's Etiquette.
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Thanks, I have often wondered about what blasphemy is meant to be. In the UK it is often been seen as an attack in religious beliefs, such as the attempt to prosecute Jerry Springer the Opera, would this be blasphemy or not (accepting if you will that Jesus is god incarnate, I realise this is not a Jewish belief)? Also would it be blasphemous to claim that god was gay?
 
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EgorjLileli wrote:


Thank you, Moshe. I am astounded at how many Christians and Christian faiths have skewed this into not ever saying the name of God or Jesus unless in prayer or reverence. Saying "Oh My God!" or just "Jesus!" is considered blasphemous and sinful.

shake

By whom? Not that I doubt you, but I got a very religious education, but saying "Oh my god" was not considered reprehensible.
I mean, I was never stroken with a ruler for saying so, and I would remember if I had been
 
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Rockhopper01 wrote:
Another good example is the expression in question, "Oh my God." Obviously, people uttering this are usually not really praying to God with whatever it is they're experiencing.

Well most of the time it seems to me that people are saying "how my god" when they are witnessing something bad. It sounds to me like a prayer, like "god help me please" or "please god save these poor people".
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Rockhopper01 wrote:

And that may be so, in the case of a tragedy. But I think we're mainly talking about the casual "OMG" you in every online forum, in millions of text messages, for the smallest reasons, such as someone getting cut off in traffic, or seeing their electric bill, or whatever.

What is fun... well kind of fun, is that that forum speak contaminated people far from the english speaking boundaries; I've lately heard youngsters saying OMG literally (sounds like "o am jay" in french!!)
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slatersteven wrote:
Thanks, I have often wondered about what blasphemy is meant to be. In the UK it is often been seen as an attack in religious beliefs, such as the attempt to prosecute Jerry Springer the Opera, would this be blasphemy or not (accepting if you will that Jesus is god incarnate, I realise this is not a Jewish belief)?


Quote:
Also would it be blasphemous to claim that god was gay?

It would just make no sense. G-d has no physical form and hence no sexual organs.

EDIT: to add--
Some Names of G-d are masculine and some feminine, depending on the grammar.
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I always assumed the Jewish use of G-d was due to the command to not take his name in vain also. Is that not related?
 
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Moshe Callen
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happyjosiah wrote:
I always assumed the Jewish use of G-d was due to the command to not take his name in vain also. Is that not related?

No, it's not.
 
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chaendlmaier wrote:
Unfortunately the Christian definition of blasphemy does not include the literal meaning of "calling God in vain", i.e. praying to or thanking God for conceited purposes like personal victories.


Right. But calling god in vain (like for instance praying for your team to win the next match) is still "sinful".
 
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HavocIsHere wrote:
chaendlmaier wrote:
Unfortunately the Christian definition of blasphemy does not include the literal meaning of "calling God in vain", i.e. praying to or thanking God for conceited purposes like personal victories.


Right. But calling god in vain (like for instance praying for your team to win the next match) is still "sinful".

Why? You think G-d is too busy to deal with fine details? What kind of G-d do you have in mind?
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HavocIsHere wrote:
EgorjLileli wrote:


Thank you, Moshe. I am astounded at how many Christians and Christian faiths have skewed this into not ever saying the name of God or Jesus unless in prayer or reverence. Saying "Oh My God!" or just "Jesus!" is considered blasphemous and sinful.

shake

By whom? Not that I doubt you, but I got a very religious education, but saying "Oh my god" was not considered reprehensible.
I mean, I was never stroken with a ruler for saying so, and I would remember if I had been


Do you want specific relgions/churches as my response?

I may be more apt to gmail them to you than put them on a public forum.
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whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Thanks, I have often wondered about what blasphemy is meant to be. In the UK it is often been seen as an attack in religious beliefs, such as the attempt to prosecute Jerry Springer the Opera, would this be blasphemy or not (accepting if you will that Jesus is god incarnate, I realise this is not a Jewish belief)?

:what:
Quote:
Also would it be blasphemous to claim that god was gay?

It would just make no sense. G-d has no physical form and hence no sexual organs.

EDIT: to add--
Some Names of G-d are masculine and some feminine, depending on the grammar.


But that does not mean people can'y do it, so would it be blasphemy if (for some reason) you did claim god has gay? Is it blasphemy to ascribe to god actions or attitudes that it is not capable off?
 
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slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Thanks, I have often wondered about what blasphemy is meant to be. In the UK it is often been seen as an attack in religious beliefs, such as the attempt to prosecute Jerry Springer the Opera, would this be blasphemy or not (accepting if you will that Jesus is god incarnate, I realise this is not a Jewish belief)?


Quote:
Also would it be blasphemous to claim that god was gay?

It would just make no sense. G-d has no physical form and hence no sexual organs.

EDIT: to add--
Some Names of G-d are masculine and some feminine, depending on the grammar.


But that does not mean people can'y do it, so would it be blasphemy if (for some reason) you did claim god has gay? Is it blasphemy to ascribe to god actions or attitudes that it is not capable off?

If you claimed the Jewish G-d had any sexual preference, you'd simply become the butt of a whole lot of jokes.

EDIT:
Do you really not understand the OP's definition? Do you really need to ask this question?
 
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Rockhopper01 wrote:

I disagree. We're encouraged to bring our concerns and requests to God. Interceding for yourself is not necessarily sinful.

Of course, how He answers the prayers is up to Him, and may not be what you want or expect!


whac3 wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
But calling god in vain (like for instance praying for your team to win the next match) is still "sinful".

Why? You think G-d is too busy to deal with fine details? What kind of G-d do you have in mind?


The version of god I was taught about. Some version of the catholic god. It has nothing to do with the powers of god, but a matter of respect. I was taught that it was irrespectful to ask something for me in prayer.

Also praying to ask anything does not make much theological sense to me.
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slatersteven wrote:
Is it blasphemy to ascribe to god actions or attitudes that it is not capable off?

God is omnipotent, so it's blasphemy to suggest he is not capable of something
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whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Thanks, I have often wondered about what blasphemy is meant to be. In the UK it is often been seen as an attack in religious beliefs, such as the attempt to prosecute Jerry Springer the Opera, would this be blasphemy or not (accepting if you will that Jesus is god incarnate, I realise this is not a Jewish belief)?

:what:
Quote:
Also would it be blasphemous to claim that god was gay?

It would just make no sense. G-d has no physical form and hence no sexual organs.

EDIT: to add--
Some Names of G-d are masculine and some feminine, depending on the grammar.


But that does not mean people can'y do it, so would it be blasphemy if (for some reason) you did claim god has gay? Is it blasphemy to ascribe to god actions or attitudes that it is not capable off?

If you claimed the Jewish G-d had any sexual preference, you'd simply become the butt of a whole lot of jokes.

EDIT:
Do you really not understand the OP's definition? Do you really need to ask this question?


As I read the OP it seems to say not it's not blasphemy, so I cannot see why you cannot give a straight answer. It tends to imply that it's a bit more complex then your OP susgests, would this be correct?
 
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slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Thanks, I have often wondered about what blasphemy is meant to be. In the UK it is often been seen as an attack in religious beliefs, such as the attempt to prosecute Jerry Springer the Opera, would this be blasphemy or not (accepting if you will that Jesus is god incarnate, I realise this is not a Jewish belief)?


Quote:
Also would it be blasphemous to claim that god was gay?

It would just make no sense. G-d has no physical form and hence no sexual organs.

EDIT: to add--
Some Names of G-d are masculine and some feminine, depending on the grammar.


But that does not mean people can'y do it, so would it be blasphemy if (for some reason) you did claim god has gay? Is it blasphemy to ascribe to god actions or attitudes that it is not capable off?

If you claimed the Jewish G-d had any sexual preference, you'd simply become the butt of a whole lot of jokes.

EDIT:
Do you really not understand the OP's definition? Do you really need to ask this question?


As I read the OP it seems to say not it's not blasphemy, so I cannot see why you cannot give a straight answer. It tends to imply that it's a bit more complex then your OP susgests, would this be correct?

I gave you a straight answer which was no and asked why you thought it would be.
 
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Euroncrowseye wrote:
garygarison wrote:
So Jews are not forbidden to say "Jesus fucking Christ"?


As I understand it, that'd have about the same strength as saying 'Noah on a fucking ark', as Jesus is not considered to be the divine son of god in Judaism.

Am I right or horribly, horribly misremembering RE?

I presumed it a joke.

For the record, Yoshka is not comparable to Noach.
 
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whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
whac3 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Thanks, I have often wondered about what blasphemy is meant to be. In the UK it is often been seen as an attack in religious beliefs, such as the attempt to prosecute Jerry Springer the Opera, would this be blasphemy or not (accepting if you will that Jesus is god incarnate, I realise this is not a Jewish belief)?

:what:
Quote:
Also would it be blasphemous to claim that god was gay?

It would just make no sense. G-d has no physical form and hence no sexual organs.

EDIT: to add--
Some Names of G-d are masculine and some feminine, depending on the grammar.


But that does not mean people can'y do it, so would it be blasphemy if (for some reason) you did claim god has gay? Is it blasphemy to ascribe to god actions or attitudes that it is not capable off?

If you claimed the Jewish G-d had any sexual preference, you'd simply become the butt of a whole lot of jokes.

EDIT:
Do you really not understand the OP's definition? Do you really need to ask this question?


As I read the OP it seems to say not it's not blasphemy, so I cannot see why you cannot give a straight answer. It tends to imply that it's a bit more complex then your OP susgests, would this be correct?

I gave you a straight answer which was no and asked why you thought it would be.


When did you answer no, all I saw were snarkey remarks about how Jews would laugh at you.
 
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Rockhopper01 wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Is it blasphemy to ascribe to god actions or attitudes that it is not capable off?

God is omnipotent, so it's blasphemy to suggest he is not capable of something :)


Not true sir.

God is omnipotent, yes, but still acts within His own righteousness and perfect character. I am perfectly comfortable claiming He cannot sin because of this character. As He is also a perfectly logical being, He is incapable of acting illogically, which puts to rest the silly question if He can create something heavier than He can lift.


Wow you sure know your god, it must have taken you some time to make him up. Shame I can easily quote several passages in the bible that refutes every claim you just made up about him.

Be prepared to accept slavery, misogyny, error god admits to, child murder, rape and genocide as part of your 'cannot sin' examples.

Also what part of the scripture tells me he is logical?

You just made all this up to make you feel comfortable.

You can keep your god's character, we are all morally superior to him.
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