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Subject: Grapple situation rss

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Frank Otte
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In our recent Descent session we noticed a theoretical constellation for Grapple, we were not able to solve. It's as follows:


-12-
-12-
G---
----


G = Creature with Grapple emanation, - = empty space, 1 = a hell hound, 2 = another hell hound. G is hostile to 1 and 2.

It's the turn of hell hound 2, and he moves diagonally bottom left, so that he overlaps with his top space with hell hound 1, and the bottom space of hell hound 2 is grappled. Note, that the top space of hell hound 2 is NOT grappled after this movement step, because, there is a maximum of one grappled figure per space. But a big creature counts as grappled, if at least one of his spaces is grappled. So, hell hound 2 is grappled.

Hell hound 2 cannot move any further, because of being grappled, not even by rotating 90° clockwise, because of the immediate effect of Grapple. But he intended to move further (and still has movement points left). Since he intended to move through hell hound 1, his movement was legal. But now, because of grapple, he cannot move on. It's current position is illegal because of overlap. What now?
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Hermjard wrote:
In our recent Descent session we noticed a theoretical constellation for Grapple, we were not able to solve. It's as follows:


-12-
-12-
G---
----


G = Creature with Grapple emanation, - = empty space, 1 = a hell hound, 2 = another hell hound. G is hostile to 1 and 2.

It's the turn of hell hound 2, and he moves diagonally bottom left, so that he overlaps with his top space with hell hound 1, and the bottom space of hell hound 2 is grappled. Note, that the top space of hell hound 2 is NOT grappled after this movement step, because, there is a maximum of one grappled figure per space. But a big creature counts as grappled, if at least one of his spaces is grappled. So, hell hound 2 is grappled.

Hell hound 2 cannot move any further, because of being grappled, not even by rotating 90° clockwise, because of the immediate effect of Grapple. But he intended to move further (and still has movement points left). Since he intended to move through hell hound 1, his movement was legal. But now, because of grapple, he cannot move on. It's current position is illegal because of overlap. What now?

Grapple can only hold one figure per space. It doesn't matter that it is using different spaces to grapple the two different monsters, the effect is still that it is holding 2 figures in one space. So teh second hound is not grappled.
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Mark McG
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It seems to me that there are quite a number of situations where the Grapple rule is...'poorly considered' in the rules. I'm thinking that a house rule solution might be that Grapple does not effect multi-space figures, nor figures in an obstacle space. It already doesn't effect figures in same space as another figure.
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Minedog3 wrote:
It seems to me that there are quite a number of situations where the Grapple rule is...'poorly considered' in the rules. I'm thinking that a house rule solution might be that Grapple does not effect multi-space figures, nor figures in an obstacle space. It already doesn't effect figures in same space as another figure.

Why shouldn't it grapple large figures?

Why not grapple on an obstacle? (other than obstacles that prevent movement in the first place, and since a figure many not end its movement on those usually, it's a fairly easy and reasonable assumption that it can't be grappled on them anyway). I see plenty of drama and theme being grappled over a lava space, or inside a pit
 
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Mark McG
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corbon wrote:
Minedog3 wrote:
It seems to me that there are quite a number of situations where the Grapple rule is...'poorly considered' in the rules. I'm thinking that a house rule solution might be that Grapple does not effect multi-space figures, nor figures in an obstacle space. It already doesn't effect figures in same space as another figure.

Why shouldn't it grapple large figures?

well mainly for the difficulty discused above, but there is also the relative mass difference. Just seems odd human size creature wressling a Troll or Giant to immobility.
corbon wrote:

Why not grapple on an obstacle? (other than obstacles that prevent movement in the first place, and since a figure many not end its movement on those usually, it's a fairly easy and reasonable assumption that it can't be grappled on them anyway). I see plenty of drama and theme being grappled over a lava space, or inside a pit


because the rules don't cover what happens when figures using skills like flying or acrobat are grappled in those obstacle spaces. A flying figure is grappled over rubble, what happens then?

As with most house rules, if the rules covered the situation, there wouldn't be any need for a house rule.
 
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Frank Otte
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corbon wrote:
Grapple can only hold one figure per space. It doesn't matter that it is using different spaces to grapple the two different monsters, the effect is still that it is holding 2 figures in one space. So teh second hound is not grappled.


Oh, well, then I have a slightly different constellation for you:


-12-
-12-
----
G---
----


G = Creature with Grapple emanation, - = empty space, 1 = a hell hound, 2 = another hell hound. G is hostile to 1 and 2.

Again, hell hound 2 moves bottom left. Hell hound 2 is grappled (and only him), but he is in an illegal position. What now?
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Hermjard wrote:
corbon wrote:
Grapple can only hold one figure per space. It doesn't matter that it is using different spaces to grapple the two different monsters, the effect is still that it is holding 2 figures in one space. So teh second hound is not grappled.


Oh, well, then I have a slightly different constellation for you:


-12-
-12-
----
G---
----


G = Creature with Grapple emanation, - = empty space, 1 = a hell hound, 2 = another hell hound. G is hostile to 1 and 2.

Again, hell hound 2 moves bottom left. Hell hound 2 is grappled (and only him), but he is in an illegal position. What now?

Q: Can a hero with Acrobat activate glyphs or take
treasures (gold, runekeys) from under a figure that is
occupying the same space as the item? Can a hero with
Acrobat open a door in which both spaces in front of the
door are occupied by figures as long as he does not end
his turn in one of those spaces?
A: Yes to all. If this causes a hero to become paralyzed or
otherwise stopped in the space due to a trap, the overlord
moves the hero to the nearest empty space of the overlord’s
choice. Note that this is a general way of resolving
situations in which a figure would end its turn on the space
of another figure (the player causing that situation gets to
choose the space the figure is moved to)
.
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