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Subject: NBN puzzle rss

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Geoff Hollis
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You are on turn 5-6 playing as NBN against noise. Game state is:

7 credits for you
0 for opponent (you breaking news/closed accounts him last turn)

Hand is:
psychographics
Archer
Matrix analyzer
Closed accounts
Adonis campaign

Board (you) is:
Data raven (rezzed) in front of R&D
Data raven (unrezzed) in front of remote server containing Adonis campaign at 9 credits
Enigma (unrezzed) in front of empty server

Board (opponent) is:
x2 data sucker with x2 virus counters each
Crypsis with x1 counter
Grimoire
Armitage code busting (12 credits remaining)

Score is:
1 for you (breaking news)
2 for opponent (security force)

Interesting behavior by opponent includes:
turn 2 ran R&D. Ended run when you rezzed data raven
Ran turn 3 with 2 cards trashed (scored security force and got x1 counter on each sucker).
Ran turn 4 after playing crypsis (only 1 hidden card in archives -- sanan).
On first archive run, opponent forgot to check for agendas; you had to remind him. He seemed very happy to just take the virus counters on the two suckers.

It is your turn. What do you do and why?
 
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B C Z
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I have 5 cards in hand with no Agenda to deploy.
I have a 1 point Agenda I can feed to Archer.

ICE up R&D with Archer and draw two bits.
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Magnus Poitier
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I'd install Adonis Campaign in the empty server, Archer in front of it, ready to rez and protect.

Yeah, I think I play HB too much, always going for the money generation when no real threats
 
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Wesley Kinslow
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It would likely involve a draw action and an installation of Archer somewhere.

It's hard to evaluate what I would do without knowing that extra card - I'm guessing I might install archer above the Adonis campaign with 9 creds on it and maybe install the other Adonis Campaign behind the unrezzed Enigma.

But again, that's depending on what I draw.
 
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Geoff Hollis
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byronczimmer wrote:
I have 5 cards in hand with no Agenda to deploy.
I have a 1 point Agenda I can feed to Archer.

ICE up R&D with Archer and draw two bits.


Your opponent already seems to be fearful of the rezzed Data Raven in front of R&D. Perhaps Archer on R&D is overkill this early into the game?
 
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
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I didn't know anybody but myself played NBN.
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Geoff Hollis
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wedgeex wrote:
It would likely involve a draw action and an installation of Archer somewhere.

It's hard to evaluate what I would do without knowing that extra card - I'm guessing I might install archer above the Adonis campaign with 9 creds on it and maybe install the other Adonis Campaign behind the unrezzed Enigma.

But again, that's depending on what I draw.


Suppose you draw Tollbooth
 
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Bob Smithy

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You ice archives with the matrix analyzer, because the opponent is gaining the equivalent of 2 credits they can spend even on anarch icebreakers every run on archives. The trace2 subroutine might cause him to spend some money, especially if you use your 2 recurring credits for traces, and the advancement counter 'subroutine' gives you just as much reason for them to run on archives as they do. You then play Tollbooth in front of Rnd,
Quote:
Suppose you draw Tollbooth
and play precognition last to get some more agendas 2-3 turns away. Stall until the Adonis wears out if you can!
 
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B C Z
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hollis wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
I have 5 cards in hand with no Agenda to deploy.
I have a 1 point Agenda I can feed to Archer.

ICE up R&D with Archer and draw two bits.


Your opponent already seems to be fearful of the rezzed Data Raven in front of R&D. Perhaps Archer on R&D is overkill this early into the game?


Now you're fishing for the answer you already have. Please share.
 
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
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I would put some intrusion countermeasure electronics down for my HQ. Funny, I'm protecting empty servers but not my HQ. Also, then he might think I actually have something worth protecting there.

That's why I suck at this game.

Probably the tollbooth. I wouldn't have archer in my NBN deck.
 
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Jeremy Owens
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There seem to be a lot of options at this point. Runner has no money and I have no agendas in danger.

Personally, I would slap matrix analyzer on the archives. The existence of a piece of ice on archives is likely going to stop him from running that for Datasucker tokens. And if he does run and I rez, he's going to be worried about that trace only because I know he's fearing scorched earth at this point.

Then I put Adonis Campaign behind the Enigma (with plans to rez at the end of his next turn.)

Third action... to be honest... I take a bit. I could slap the tollbooth or archer on HQ, but there's nothing to steal or trash. So if he runs for Datasucker tokens, he'll either see 1 of 2 pieces of scary ice. Or he'll see 1 of 2 cards that'll make him fear those tags even more. With two ice protected adonis campaigns running, I'll all for some mind games while I dominate the financial situation.

I don't see it as that much of a puzzle since there's not much that the runner can pull off with no money (even with the armitage) that's going to hurt my current development. If he sets up a parasite somewhere, I can reinforce or replace the ice affected with one of the monsters in my hand.
 
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Paul Imboden
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hollis wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
I have 5 cards in hand with no Agenda to deploy.
I have a 1 point Agenda I can feed to Archer.

ICE up R&D with Archer and draw two bits.


Your opponent already seems to be fearful of the rezzed Data Raven in front of R&D. Perhaps Archer on R&D is overkill this early into the game?


R&D is your current (and overall) biggest threat against Noise.

Archer on the R&D server WILL put an end to that, in one turn.

Save the Tollbooth for a rainy day.
 
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hollis wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
I have 5 cards in hand with no Agenda to deploy.
I have a 1 point Agenda I can feed to Archer.

ICE up R&D with Archer and draw two bits.


Your opponent already seems to be fearful of the rezzed Data Raven in front of R&D. Perhaps Archer on R&D is overkill this early into the game?


So what's he afraid of?

He has one resource out currently: Armitage, and it's fully loaded.

What's he probably got in his hand?
Lets go with Parasite (costs $2 to boot up)

Probable actions if that's the case?
1) Draw $2 from Armitage
2) Run Archives (+2 Datasuckers)
3) Drop Parasite on Data Raven
4) Run R&D, destroying Data Raven and accessing R&D

Putting Archer on R&D won't necessarily stop his plan, maybe you're bluffing, but imagine the horror when he runs into Archer, you Trash a Data Sucker and the Parasite and he goes home, you $2 richer?


Matrix Analyzer in front of Archives is another good option - it stops the free datasucker dance, or at least makes it costly, especially with NBN's trace boosting recurring credits.
 
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Geoff Hollis
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byronczimmer wrote:
hollis wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
I have 5 cards in hand with no Agenda to deploy.
I have a 1 point Agenda I can feed to Archer.

ICE up R&D with Archer and draw two bits.


Your opponent already seems to be fearful of the rezzed Data Raven in front of R&D. Perhaps Archer on R&D is overkill this early into the game?


Now you're fishing for the answer you already have. Please share.


I am uncertain more than anything. My initial impression was that no more ice needs to go on R&D right now -- runner is out of credits and has already shown aversion to data raven. But I'm starting to feel like this is a bad assumption and wondering if someone can give me a solid argument as to why I should add more ice to R&D.

Here's what I actually did though:

Click 1: draw (tollbooth)
Click 2: matrix analyzer on HQ
Click 3: archer on archives

Reasoning:

I have no intention of putting another ice on archives. And one ice on archives looks so weak late game. I want to set up a situation where I can maximize my chances of completely crippling runner.

If I draw an agenda, I want to be able to drop it and start advancing immediately behind weak defenses, exploiting the fact that runner has very few credits. if I play Adonis behind enigma, I block that possibility. I have 9 credits coming over the next 3 turns; my economy is healthy. I don't think I need to play Adonis right now.

However, I also don't want to give the runner a free look at my hand. Even if i don't have agendas, information is still a valuable resource. Matrix analyzer goes down. It may even bait runner into hitting HQ, which is a great thing for me. He can't score an agenda there, and I get to apply a tag to slow him down even further.

I prefer matrix analyzer over tollbooth on HQ in this position because: I am banking on my current economic advantage translating to some easily scored agendas. I don't want to put myself into a position where I might have to Rez an expensive ice and drain my coffers. Due to the game state, I also don't think I will have an agenda in hand for the next 3-4 turns unless I am very unlucky and draw two back-to-back agendas over the next two turns (and the first is priority req).

in retrospect, though, I think matrix analyzer should have gone on R&D and archer should have gone on the enigma server. That said, I am not 100% certain why this is a better play (or if it even is).
 
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hollis wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
hollis wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
I have 5 cards in hand with no Agenda to deploy.
I have a 1 point Agenda I can feed to Archer.

ICE up R&D with Archer and draw two bits.


Your opponent already seems to be fearful of the rezzed Data Raven in front of R&D. Perhaps Archer on R&D is overkill this early into the game?


Now you're fishing for the answer you already have. Please share.


I am uncertain more than anything. My initial impression was that no more ice needs to go on R&D right now -- runner is out of credits and has already shown aversion to data raven. But I'm starting to feel like this is a bad assumption and wondering if someone can give me a solid argument as to why I should add more ice to R&D.


See the post above. Noise needs 2 Credits, a Parasite in hand and an open central server to blow up Data Raven. If he's been setting up the viral counters he's got a Parasite in his hand.

Putting Archer on Archives - not a bad play, but you're protecting only those cards he put there (versus you doing it). Yesterday's news isn't worth that many points.

 
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Geoff Hollis
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Quote:

See the post above. Noise needs 2 Credits, a Parasite in hand and an open central server to blow up Data Raven. If he's been setting up the viral counters he's got a Parasite in his hand.

Putting Archer on Archives - not a bad play, but you're protecting only those cards he put there (versus you doing it). Yesterday's news isn't worth that many points.


I don't know that it's guanranteed parasite is in hand. I think it is equally likely even without parasite. But I do think the possibility is a good argument for further icing R&D. If it played out the way you predict, though, I would be more inclined to trash crypsis and parasite, leaving both suckers I tact.
 
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Crypsis costs the Runner money and actions to use it.

Datasucker gives the Runner (in this situation) 2 -1 STR tokens per central server Run -- which could equate to being able to crack uncrackable items with Yog/Mimic, or outright immediate destruction of ICE with Parasite as shown.

So many unknowns, it's why it's a great game.
 
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Geoff Hollis
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byronczimmer wrote:
Crypsis costs the Runner money and actions to use it.

Datasucker gives the Runner (in this situation) 2 -1 STR tokens per central server Run -- which could equate to being able to crack uncrackable items with Yog/Mimic, or outright immediate destruction of ICE with Parasite as shown.

So many unknowns, it's why it's a great game.


My thinking is data sucker is useless without icebreakers. Given how little money runner has, you will have ample time to virus scan before any serious damage is done with yog/mimic. Parasite is a possibility, but not a terribly dangerous one given the situation we are in (only unrezzed ice is behind archer, given that we follow your line of play and put archer on R&D). Then again, I also find I have a habit of consistently underestimating the power of data sucker.
 
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Allen Doum
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So, not a puzzle after all, but a "what would you do in this situation".

Probably more appropriate for this game anyway.
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Geoff Hollis
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AllenDoum wrote:
So, not a puzzle after all, but a "what would you do in this situation".

Probably more appropriate for this game anyway.


If you consider puzzle to mean "a problem with at least one best answer" I think this constitutes a puzzle -- it's just a puzzle I personally haven't solved yet! Some people might consider it an "exercise" or "thought experiment", but my hunch is there is at least one "best" answer to this scenario, given the limited card pool. But... I could be wrong
 
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hollis wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
Crypsis costs the Runner money and actions to use it.

Datasucker gives the Runner (in this situation) 2 -1 STR tokens per central server Run -- which could equate to being able to crack uncrackable items with Yog/Mimic, or outright immediate destruction of ICE with Parasite as shown.

So many unknowns, it's why it's a great game.


My thinking is data sucker is useless without icebreakers.


My thinking is that Data Sucker + Grimoire + Parasite *is an icebreaker*, one that trashes the target ICE permanently. Throw in Ice Carver for good measure.

Plus:::
I just realized that in your scenario the Datasuckers already have TWO tokens each, so that's -4 available, plus the free -1 from the Parasite on install due to Grimoire... Even against an Archer, that's just 4 credits to prevent program destruction (and all 4 data counters) - which is a better result than destruction of Data Raven (cost of 3 counters + Parasite) and the gain of 2 counters when he accesses R&D.

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hollis wrote:
AllenDoum wrote:
So, not a puzzle after all, but a "what would you do in this situation".

Probably more appropriate for this game anyway.


If you consider puzzle to mean "a problem with at least one best answer" I think this constitutes a puzzle -- it's just a puzzle I personally haven't solved yet! Some people might consider it an "exercise" or "thought experiment", but my hunch is there is at least one "best" answer to this scenario, given the limited card pool. But... I could be wrong


Traditionally, puzzles have a definitive answer.
 
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Agha Ahsan
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Jythier wrote:
I didn't know anybody but myself played NBN.


I really like NBN actually. They need more things to do with that tracing, but they are a cool faction...
 
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Geoff Hollis
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I think I am going to post situations like this on a semi-regular basis for discussion. In an effort to avoid clutter on the main A:NR forum, I've created a blog. If you've enjoyed reading the situations I have posted so far, you will now be able to find more of them here!
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Hugh Grotius
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Well, I hope you continue to post these here, too. Whether it's a puzzle or a conundrum or a dilemma or whatever, it's thought-provoking.

For that matter, I'd love to see a traditional "only one answer" puzzle about Netrunner. Maybe it's impossible to make one? A sort of "mate in two moves" thing?
 
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