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Subject: Is this game ok standalone? rss

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Kevin Goodman
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This game sounds quite good but I'm worried that the whole idea of collectable or "living" card games is going to be bad for my OCD!!!! lol

Is the base game fun in it's own right? Or does it feel somehow unfinished? I'm trying to understand how compelling a monthly release of new cards will be.

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I'm having a ton of fun with just the base set. There are a lot of options and replayability with all of the decks and the set seems very complete by itself. While I am looking forward to the Data Packs that will releae, the base set is a complete experience by itself.
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M N
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A core set is fine to use on its own. It has a lot of cards and with the ability to mix and match factions (Corps or Runners) together up to the 15 influence available it makes for a lot of combinations to try out. Also a LCG is much more collector friendly as you buy the one data pack for the month and that is it. Packs are $15 CDN locally.
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Phelan
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If you have Obsessive Completionist Disorder, it's likely it will be pretty compelling.

But since I haven't gotten my pre-order yet and haven't played the game, I can't comment on the base game's fun factor.
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Kevin Goodman
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Can someone explain what the difference might be between this idea of a "living card game" and, say, Dominion which seems to put out expansions several times a year. I've never played Magic and I don't really get it. Are these monthly card packs like mini-expansions?
 
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Phelan
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In magic (and other CCG) there were usually "boosters", a random pack of cards from each expansion, that had different rarities. You'd have to buy a lot of packs, or trade with others to get the cards you wanted.

This is more like a Dominion small expansion, to put it into the context you mentioned.
Edit: From what I understand, there's a fixed number of cards per LCG expansion, and apparently it's usually 3 of each card. Also, you can't just buy an expansion and build legal decks(or it's not meant for it, at least).
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Tom
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An LCG is essentially a CCG. The key difference being there is no random booster buying. There are no common/uncommon/rare cards. New cards are released in small 60 card packs every month or 2 that you only need to buy one of if you want those cards.

Yes they are like mini expansions and are totally optional.
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Lawcomic
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The question of how does an LCG differ from Dominion is a good one. It's so good, I choose not to try to answer it.
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Trevor Schadt
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Lawcomic wrote:
The question of how does an LCG differ from Dominion is a good one. It's so good, I choose not to try to answer it.
The main difference between this and Dominion is that in Dominion, you're building your deck during the game, while in a LCG like A:NR you build your deck completely before the game, and bring the pre-built deck to the game. Out of the box, you can play any of the 4 pre-constructed Corporate decks versus any of the 3 pre-constructed Runner decks, or you can customize the decks (although the majority of the deck will still remain either faction-specific cards or neutral cards).

Once the "expansions" start coming out, you'll pretty much be locked into deck customization in order to fold those cards into the Core-set decks.
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Hugh Grotius
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And the game is great standalone. It's fun, sometimes tense, always interesting.

There are lots of combinations of matchups right out of the box. You get 3 runner decks and 4 Corp decks. If you just use those standard decks, that alone makes for 12 combinations of faceoffs -- Shapers vs Jinteki, Shapers vs HB, and so on. And if you start deckbuilding, as you can with the many cards in the core set, then the possible combos of cards on each side of the table skyrocket.

The play of the hand is challenging, more challenging than in Dominion: on any given action in any given turn, there are a half-dozen or more choices to make. (Dominion is great, but I often feel there are just a couple of choices in playing any given turn.) As the Corp, you're weighing what to install where, how to hide the Agenda you just drew, where to put your traps, whether to take money or to draw a card, which ice to put where, whether to purge virus counters, which server to protect, etc.

As the Runner, you're choosing whether to take a run, whether to grab some credits, to draw a card, to install a virus or program or hardware or resource, etc. When you run, you have to decide which server to run against, then mull over whether to pay to bypass a subroutine that gives you a tag, whether to jack out if you sense a trap, etc. I like switching sides in each game, so that first you play as a runner, then you play as a Corp.

If your main experience is with Dominion, you might not be used to the more directly confrontational style of Netrunner. The runner is trying to steal stuff from the Corp; the Corp is trying primarily to score its own agendas but, along the way, often tries to hurt the runner. Also, Netrunner's rules are a tad more complex than those of Dominion. Netrunner obviously has a cyberpunk theme, quite a contrast to the fantasy theme of Dominion. Netrunner's jargon ("ice," "icebreakers," "clicks," "runs," "servers," "stack," "heap," "R&D," "Archives", etc.) takes a little getting used to, but that's part of its charm.

Still, I'm inclined to think that someone who likes Dominion will also like Netrunner.
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Troy Creamer
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Played 6 games so far and i don't even feel like i have scratched the surface. I think there is a ton to explore just in the core set.
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Walter McCormick
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The modern day card gaming spectrum

CCGs (Ex. Magic: The Gathering)
LCGs (Ex. Netrunner)
Deckbuilders (Ex. Dominion)
Card Drafters (Ex. 7 Wonders)


CCGs: Random Card Purchases, Individual Card Ownership, Deckbuilding BEFORE Gameplay, Drafting Optional
LCGs: Fixed Card Purchases, Individual Card Ownership, Deckbuilding BEFORE Gameplay, Drafting Optional
Deckbuilders: Fixed Card Purchases, Shared Pool of Cards, Deckbuilding DURING Gameplay, No Drafting
Card Drafters: Fixed Card Purchases, Shared Pool of Cards, No Deckbuilding, Drafting Core Mechanic

And I'm sure there are games out there that mix and match other features. Actually, Among the Stars comes to mind. That's in the Card Drafter family, but adds a board gaming element (card layout matters). I'm sure theres more exceptions.
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Brad Miller
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SkywalterDBZ wrote:
The modern day card gaming spectrum

CCGs (Ex. Magic: The Gathering)
LCGs (Ex. Netrunner)
Deckbuilders (Ex. Dominion)
Card Drafters (Ex. 7 Wonders)


I think this misses the mark a bit, or is perhaps an over generalization of the current card gaming spectrum.
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Clyde W
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ZyronEnder wrote:
This game sounds quite good but I'm worried that the whole idea of collectable or "living" card games is going to be bad for my OCD!!!! lol

Is the base game fun in it's own right? Or does it feel somehow unfinished? I'm trying to understand how compelling a monthly release of new cards will be.

Just played 4 games tonight. Played 4 games this past weekend. Each with the prebuilt decks. It's totally great out of the box. Tons and tons of interesting strategies to uncover.
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Paul Imboden
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Lawcomic wrote:
The question of how does an LCG differ from Dominion is a good one.


The main difference is the spelling.
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David Sleaze
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I played the last 3 Days with 3 different other players. The first one did some teaching games with me before, we did one game with starter decks and then startet customizing our decks for another game, pulled out some cards, put in new ones and did some matches switching sides.
Then i played with the guy i got into this game with, both with prebuild decks using more than one coreset each.
Today i played with a guy that did not know a single rule so i went back to the pure starter OOB decks.
Played 4 games shaper vs jinteki, switching sides, then i switched to weyland and we did 3 more games.

So this was 3 total diffrent play situations, one with just OOB Decks, one with a bit tuned decks and one with full prebuild decks.

I can honestly say that all of it was great fun. Really, i am total crazy about deckbuilding, that´s why i love LCGs. But for Netrunner its totaly fine and fun for me just playing prebuild decks.

I could imagine if i was not so much into deckbuilding that i would just be happy with the coreset with no expansions needed for a longer time.

Ok.. i know i will get each and every Datapack comming out.. but thats just me because i have so much fun building the decks and thinking about cards & deck strategies and combos..
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Chad
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Dominion's booster packs cost $30 dollars and LCG's cost $10.
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Lawcomic
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Utrecht wrote:
Dominion's booster packs cost $30 dollars and LCG's cost $10.


But what's the cost per card breakdown for both...
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Clyde W
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Lawcomic wrote:
Utrecht wrote:
Dominion's booster packs cost $30 dollars and LCG's cost $10.


But what's the cost per card breakdown for both...
10 copies of 15 cards vs 3 copies of 20 cards.
 
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Double Plus Undead
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ZyronEnder wrote:
This game sounds quite good but I'm worried that the whole idea of collectable or "living" card games is going to be bad for my OCD!!!! lol

Is the base game fun in it's own right? Or does it feel somehow unfinished? I'm trying to understand how compelling a monthly release of new cards will be.



The core set is self-contained, and it plays very well without expansions. Of course, if you play the game a lot, you might want to get expansions. But LCG expansions are only $10-15 for small packs, and $20-25 for deluxe expansions, so it's very affordable.

I recommend just picking up the core set and playing with it. It's a blast, and there's a ton of replay value. Then, in a few months when an expansion or two has come out, you can decide if you feel like picking one up. It's certainly not a requirement to enjoy the game, though.
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Todd Pytel
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Grotius wrote:
I'm inclined to think that someone who likes Dominion will also like Netrunner.


Can't say I agree with that at all - in fact, your own analysis of what the players are thinking in NR seems to contradict that final statement. Dominion takes the basic CCG idea and slants it toward an exercise in mathematical and probabilistic thinking. While there's a certain amount of that in NR (planning bits, calculating run costs, etc.), most of those things you mentioned are psychological in nature - what's the other guy planning, what does he think I'm planning, and how can I fool him? I would say that NR takes the basic CCG idea and slants it toward poker.

That being said, I agree that the base NR set is perfectly playable by itself. There are plenty of matchups there out of the box, and still some deckbuilding available to expand on those. My wife and I play quite a bit of both Magic and Dominion, but she's not all that keen on NR. So I'm leaning toward sticking with just the base set and foregoing the expansions, but still consider that money well spent. If anything, I'm a little worried about FFG being able to maintain some semblance of game balance and sanity as the expansions roll on.
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Beyer
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tppytel wrote:
Grotius wrote:
I'm inclined to think that someone who likes Dominion will also like Netrunner.


Can't say I agree with that at all - ...

I don't care for Dominion. It's one the most boring two player games I've come across. Neither do my GF. She isn't too keen on Magic neither, but we both enjoy Netrunner VERY much.

Those three games don't have very much in common except they are played with cards.

As for the OP: buy two core sets and I honestly think you're set for a VERY long time. I honestly don't think a game like Netrunner benefits a whole lot from a ton of extra cards and expansions because some of the 'controllability' of your play is lost.
What I mean is that when playing with only the core set, you are naturally playing against a certain faction, that has strengths and weaknesses but the deck building allows you to splash cards from other factions. With the limited card pool of the core set you still have a fighting chance to figure out what your opponent might have splashed based on how they're playing and you can make educated guesses and inspired plays, with a large card pool your guesses become diluted and figuring out what to plan for becomes more random.

So: Playing with only the core set is a VERY good idea.

I actually think it's a bit like Race for The Galaxy. The base game and the first expansion is JUST right. Everything else beyond that might add interesting choices to the game, but the overall effect when you really care for RftG is that the card pool is diluted just enough to not have reliable statistics for drawing the cards you need. RftG is very much a probability related game that relies heavily on damage control and forward planning and that is lost in exchange for 'more flavour' with the added cards. This is bad in my book.

Netrunner actually plays so well with a limited card pool that the two same decks played against each other will not get really, really stale unless there is some glaring imbalance between them. You can easily play ten, twenty games with the same decks against each other learning the in's and out's of the other players playstyle with that particular deck. The game simply changes its feel. It's still a game of bluffing and guessing, but the nature of the bluffs simply change, the feel of needing to bluff is still present in exactly the same amounts.
This is part of why I'm so excited about Netrunner.

Netrunner deserves to be 'geeked out on' because it gets MUCH better the more you play it. And you CAN play it with a limited card pool. But the game also rewards you for geeking out. It can be played as a filler but I don't think you'll be getting the true potential out of it then.
So ya. If you don't think skill-based and bluffs are for you, I'd look somewhere else.

Considering the nature of the forum I'll say this: not loving skill-based games does not make you a 'tard, some people simply enjoy not frying their brains in their spare time when they've just spent an entire work week doing the same thus they are looking for games that are fun without a large amount of mental investment.

My heartfelt advice is: If and only IF you and your wife would think a skill-based bluffing game is for you, buy two core sets and have a crack at it. I love it, so naturally I think everyone else would too
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Phelan
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Two core sets? Really? For someone who is unsure if he should get the game?shake
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Phelan
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Just to clarify, there's been a lot of discussion on how many core sets to get, and most agree that getting a 2nd one is not essential. I don't want to rehash discussion on this, use search.
 
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Mike Stevens
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I have played about 20 games so far with the standard Shaper vs Jinteki decks and custom decks. I have played with 3 different players and 2 of them have purchased their own copy of the game. So far everyone I have played it with has enjoyed it and wants to play again.

I only have one core set and we have had a blast with it. I think I have a pretty solid custom Shaper deck with a few Criminal and Anarch cards thrown in. Looking forward to making more custom decks and getting the first expansion pack.

I am a huge Dominion fan and I can tell you that Netrunner is completely different. In Dominion everyone has access to the same cards and in Netrunner you are playing against a completely different deck from your own. While I have pulled off several 7-0 shutouts with my Shaper deck, I have also had several games that were 5-5 or 6-5 and came down to getting that last Agenda on the perfect Run. While we were playing Dominion: Dark Ages at least 3 times a week when it first came out, we have not played a game of it since we started playing Netrunner. Netrunner is one of those games that I tend to think about even after the game is over, always analyizing which moves I made, timing of my card play and Runs, etc.
 
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