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Subject: If the game stuck in a perfectly 6x6 grid, then what? rss

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Moritz Lo
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I know it is unlikely happening.
At somebody's turn he finishes the grid with perfectly 6x6 square (and scores 24 points), what's next? There's no legal move.
 
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col_w
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Per the rules, all players will spend eternity swapping tiles in their hand for ones in the bag!
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John Earles
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Call the game over. There is no legal move.

See also: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/743590/game-flaw
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Russ Williams
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Moritz wrote:
I know it is unlikely happening.
At somebody's turn he finishes the grid with perfectly 6x6 square (and scores 24 points), what's next? There's no legal move.

Note that they might have scored many more than 24 points if they added more than a single tile...
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Ben Bateson
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It's probably also worth noting that if this happens then all players involved need to re-visit some ideas of basic strategy.
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Russ Williams
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ousgg wrote:
It's probably also worth noting that if this happens then all players involved need to re-visit some ideas of basic strategy.

Well, not necessarily. Maybe they each get very lucky: the first player puts out all 6 red symbols, then the next player puts out all 6 green symbols, then the next player puts out all 6 yellow symbols, then ...
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Fred Anderson
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ousgg wrote:
It's probably also worth noting that if this happens then all players involved need to re-visit some ideas of basic strategy.

This is the correct answer, there is no scenario where the player completing the 6x6 grid could not have played an alternate move that would allow the game to continue.
Just add a rule, house or offical, that states you are not allowed to play a tile that would cause the next player to have no legal moves.
 
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Russ Williams
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w1nterl0ng wrote:
ousgg wrote:
It's probably also worth noting that if this happens then all players involved need to re-visit some ideas of basic strategy.

This is the correct answer, there is no scenario where the player completing the 6x6 grid could not have played an alternate move that would allow the game to continue.
Just add a rule, house or offical, that states you are not allowed to play a tile that would cause the next player to have no legal moves.

But why add such a rule? If the player who completed the grid would win the game, I see no reason to force them to make some other play that causes the game to continue. It's a legal play with the rules as written, and a good play.
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Ben Bateson
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What Russ said.

The real fault is on the part of the player who played the penultimate turn. They should have seen a possibility of giving the game away and played a more negative move.
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Randall Bart
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ousgg wrote:
What Russ said.

The real fault is on the part of the player who played the penultimate turn. They should have seen a possibility of giving the game away and played a more negative move.


Would you pass up a 22 point play?
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Russ Williams
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Barticus88 wrote:
ousgg wrote:
What Russ said.

The real fault is on the part of the player who played the penultimate turn. They should have seen a possibility of giving the game away and played a more negative move.


Would you pass up a 22 point play?

I guess whether it's really the fault of the penultimate players depends on whether the players realize that they are playing in some freaky alternative universe where they're all drawing perfect tiles to keep making qwirkles.
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Ben Bateson
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Would I pass up a 22-point play?

If the grid was already a perfect 6x4 oblong, then yes. The fundamental strategy that underpins Qwirkle is to not give your opponent(s) an opportunity to score more points than you do.

But I'd be happy to play you guys any time in order to prove that.
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ousgg wrote:
Would I pass up a 22-point play?

If the grid was already a perfect 6x4 oblong, then yes. The fundamental strategy that underpins Qwirkle is to not give your opponent(s) an opportunity to score more points than you do.


I strongly disagree.
Of course you should consider the opportunities you create for your opponents. But you can't avoid giving them *any* opportunity to score more points than you do as you claim. Sometimes you just have to risk it.
The important thing is to consider the *likelihood* with which they can seize the opportunities.
And since it is quite unlikely that they'll be able to finish the 6x6 grid (especially if more than 1 tile is missing and/or with only 1 opponent), you should probably go for a strong move scoring, say, 22 points in spite of the slim chance that your opponent uses that to win by creating a 6x6 grid.
You might even be able to score considerably more than 22 points on your move which later turns out to be the penultimate one.
Maybe you are playing a four player game and that move at least secures you second place which you are already somewhat content with.
And/or you might also have a better chance at finishing the 6x6 grid if you already have the necessary tile(s) on your hand (maybe even two of them) which makes it likely that your opponent(s) has to trade tiles and then you can finish yourself.
Heck, it is even possible that you already lead by so much that your opponent(s) would loose (because he has fewer points in total) when creating the 6x6 grid. In which case you can risklessly play both the penultimate and ultimate tiles yourself.

But if instead your opponent can win by say having the last other fitting tile out of the 72 still left and against all odds manages to pull that off, then you have arrived at a 6x6 grid with each player having played optimally (i. e. maximising his likelihood of victory).

So other than you claim, there is absolutely no need for very bad or even suboptimal play from any player to arrive at a 6x6 grid.
Unlikely? Yes. But far from impossible.
 
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Rafael Arrivabene
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It has happened to me yesterday!

I was playing with a group of friends for their second time. Since the first game was very wide, with many holes and low scores, I advised them that you gain way more points when the lines are closer.

Result, in the second game, we exchanged a lot of pieces, and when I realized where we were going, it was already too late. We had no option but to form the 6x6 grid.

It was awkward, but nevertheless fair. We just called the game over and scored that many points.
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Christopher Ross
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Rkt9 wrote:
It has happened to me yesterday!

You must have traded a lot of tiles in order to complete all 12 Qwirkles. Usually there's always a better scoring play that will keep this from ever happening. Especially one that adds a tile to an existing line while starting a new line of the same color or shape.

When the app was developed we made sure it handled a case like this. The game is indeed officially over if there are no more legal plays.




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Rafael Arrivabene
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Thank you for sharing this!
Yes, we trade tiles a lot of times, but there was luck (or bad luck) too. It was not intentional to make that grid.

As I mentioned, my friends were still learning to play the game, so they kind of stuck to an strategy and pushed it to the limit. I agree that it is not very strategical move, therefore may happen only with beginers.

One question: In the app, how do you deal with the 6 point bonus in this case? In our game, I said it was not valid, because the rulebook explains that the bonus goes to the first player who uses all of their tiles. In our case, all the players still had remaining tiles in their hands.
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Christopher Ross
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Rkt9 wrote:
One question: In the app, how do you deal with the 6 point bonus in this case? In our game, I said it was not valid, because the rulebook explains that the bonus goes to the first player who uses all of their tiles. In our case, all the players still had remaining tiles in their hands.

You were correct. No one used all of their tiles, so no one gets the 6 point bonus.

Edit: Didn't mean to imply that you can get the bonus if you play all of your tiles at any other time. Only one person can get this bonus and the tile bag must be empty.
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Mil Myman
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Unco wrote:
Rkt9 wrote:
One question: In the app, how do you deal with the 6 point bonus in this case? In our game, I said it was not valid, because the rulebook explains that the bonus goes to the first player who uses all of their tiles. In our case, all the players still had remaining tiles in their hands.

You were correct. No one used all of their tiles, so no one gets the 6 point bonus.

And there are also remaining tiles in the bag. IMO, the 6-point bonus is for when the *bag* has run out of tiles, and a player has used all his and thus can't draw any more.
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