Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
86 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam."` rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Rich Shipley
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
the liberal unsavory type
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Is there something wrong with that statement?

Here's a little more if that helps:

Quote:
The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. Yet to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see when the image of Jesus Christ is desecrated, churches are destroyed, or the Holocaust is denied. Let us condemn incitement against Sufi Muslims, and Shiite pilgrims. It is time to heed the words of Gandhi: “Intolerance is itself a form of violence and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit.” Together, we must work towards a world where we are strengthened by our differences, and not defined by them. That is what America embodies, and that is the vision we will support.
24 
 Thumb up
0.07
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
flag msg tools
admin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And for a bit more context:

Quote:
The future must not belong to those who target Coptic Christians in Egypt – it must be claimed by those in Tahrir Square who chanted “Muslims, Christians, we are one.” The future must not belong to those who bully women – it must be shaped by girls who go to school, and those who stand for a world where our daughters can live their dreams just like our sons. The future must not belong to those corrupt few who steal a country’s resources – it must be won by the students and entrepreneurs; workers and business owners who seek a broader prosperity for all people. Those are the men and women that America stands with; theirs is the vision we will support.

The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. Yet to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see when the image of Jesus Christ is desecrated, churches are destroyed, or the Holocaust is denied. Let us condemn incitement against Sufi Muslims, and Shiite pilgrims. It is time to heed the words of Gandhi: “Intolerance is itself a form of violence and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit.” Together, we must work towards a world where we are strengthened by our differences, and not defined by them. That is what America embodies, and that is the vision we will support.

Among Israelis and Palestinians, the future must not belong to those who turn their backs on the prospect of peace. Let us leave behind those who thrive on conflict, and those who reject the right of Israel to exist. The road is hard but the destination is clear – a secure, Jewish state of Israel; and an independent, prosperous Palestine. Understanding that such a peace must come through a just agreement between the parties, America will walk alongside all who are prepared to make that journey.
In Syria, the future must not belong to a dictator who massacres his people. If there is a cause that cries out for protest in the world today, it is a regime that tortures children and shoots rockets at apartment buildings. And we must remain engaged to assure that what began with citizens demanding their rights does not end in a cycle of sectarian violence.


So, BJ, do you think the future should belong to those that slander the prophet of Islam? If not, what was your point of picking that one phrase out of context and posting it as the title?
31 
 Thumb up
1.57
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Smith
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
You can't slander someone who is dead.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Snowball
Belgium
n/a
flag msg tools
badge
Gender: pot*ato. My opinion is an opinion.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BJ I admit my eyes nearly fell off their sockets.

But then this is a wonderful demonstration on how just a little context change the meaning of written material.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Edwards
United Kingdom
London
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
I'm sure by idignantly correcting BJ's statement you are teaching him a valuable lesson in honesty and humility. Surely getting a rise out of you is not his his sole purpose in posting.

I mean you can't even go with educating interested third parties, he posted the link.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MGK
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
One's response to these comments (both in and out of context) is probably dependent on what one thinks of the push for anti-blasphemy laws. If you love anti-blasphemy laws, then you'll probably like what the President said.

But contrary to his comments, it is not "what America embodies." Rather, our view is "I may not agree with what you have to say, but will defend your right to say it." Freedom of speech and all that.


um

Barack Obama wrote:
I know there are some who ask why we don’t just ban such a video. The answer is enshrined in our laws: our Constitution protects the right to practice free speech. Here in the United States, countless publications provoke offense. Like me, the majority of Americans are Christian, and yet we do not ban blasphemy against our most sacred beliefs. Moreover, as President of our country, and Commander-in-Chief of our military, I accept that people are going to call me awful things every day, and I will always defend their right to do so. Americans have fought and died around the globe to protect the right of all people to express their views – even views that we disagree with.

We do so not because we support hateful speech, but because our Founders understood that without such protections, the capacity of each individual to express their own views, and practice their own faith, may be threatened. We do so because in a diverse society, efforts to restrict speech can become a tool to silence critics, or oppress minorities. We do so because given the power of faith in our lives, and the passion that religious differences can inflame, the strongest weapon against hateful speech is not repression, it is more speech – the voices of tolerance that rally against bigotry and blasphemy, and lift up the values of understanding and mutual respect.
24 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
flag msg tools
admin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Chris, you don't think Drew let's a little thing like the facts or the content of the speech get in the way of his partisan blinders do you?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The future must not beling to any one who is rude and offensive.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Smith
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
bjlillo wrote:
Halfinger wrote:
You can't slander someone who is dead.


I posted this thread just to see what your reaction to Obama's position that the future must not belong to people like yourself, and this is the best you can give me? That was a disappointment.


I really don't care to be honest. They say what they want the audience to hear not what they believe.

They are bum licking, I know that from the statement by Clinton. It is at the UN. So what?

If a politician goes in and says 'Hey guys god does not exist and you are all stupid to have blasphemy laws' they will get nowhere fast.

So I have no issue with it at all. If anyone does it is because they are ignoring the audience he is trying to persuade. This is not for domestic use and he must tread very, very carefully with this.

International politics is very complicated, hopefully Romney will realise that one day and stop putting his foot in it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Snowball
Belgium
n/a
flag msg tools
badge
Gender: pot*ato. My opinion is an opinion.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:

But contrary to his comments, it is not "what America embodies." Rather, our view is "I may not agree with what you have to say, but will defend your right to say it." Freedom of speech and all that.

I loathe the anti blasphemy laws. But that's an entirely different issue.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
flag msg tools
admin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The UN has been passing resolutions "Combating defamation of religions" since 1999. The world has not been engulfed in fire, we have not lost our freedom of speech, nor have the Islamic nations conquered the earth.

Did you think this was new?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Snowball
Belgium
n/a
flag msg tools
badge
Gender: pot*ato. My opinion is an opinion.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:

But contrary to his comments, it is not "what America embodies." Rather, our view is "I may not agree with what you have to say, but will defend your right to say it." Freedom of speech and all that.

I loathe the anti blasphemy laws. But that's an entirely different issue.


It's being debated in the U.N.

Yes. But BJ's OP is about painting Obama as a defender of Islam, which is false.

As for my opinion on it, it's quite simple; I am an atheist and I find religions harmful, and on top of that blasphemy's definition is too loose to be the subject of legislation. Hell i've had a religious education and I just discovered that "OMG" is blasphemy.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Smith
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
HavocIsHere wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
HavocIsHere wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:

But contrary to his comments, it is not "what America embodies." Rather, our view is "I may not agree with what you have to say, but will defend your right to say it." Freedom of speech and all that.

I loathe the anti blasphemy laws. But that's an entirely different issue.


It's being debated in the U.N.

Yes. But BJ's OP is about painting Obama as a defender of Islam, which is false.

As for my opinion on it, it's quite simple; I am an atheist and I find religions harmful, and on top of that blasphemy's definition is too loose to be the subject of legislation. Hell i've had a religious education and I just discovered that "OMG" is blasphemy.


Yes its' a silly concept so loosely defined (Mosche is the only one who defined his interpretation as anything sensible)

Also the Muslim prohibition on depicting Muhammed is fairly recent in their history. It does not really derive from their scriptures at all (apparently, I have not checked any sources on this)



This came up in the UK several years ago. Religious groups, including Christians, were trying to get a blasphemy law into the back door by calling it hate speech and mixing it up with race legislation.

Comedians and satirists were furious about this of course.

The fact is no one has the right not to be offended. The fact schools and politicians do not say that is the root of a lot of issues we have today.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damian
United States
Enfield
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Halfinger wrote:
Also the Muslim prohibition on depicting Muhammed is fairly recent in their history. It does not really derive from their scriptures at all (apparently, I have not checked any sources on this)

It's not recent, it's just not particularly consistent through history because it's not a Quranic restriction specifically, but from Hadith. It's also heavily influenced by which sect is dominant in a given area, and how conservative that flavor of that sect as well. Sunnis are usually dominant, and they're the most strict about iconography. The Shi'as are much more laid back about it.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Smith
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
damiangerous wrote:
Halfinger wrote:
Also the Muslim prohibition on depicting Muhammed is fairly recent in their history. It does not really derive from their scriptures at all (apparently, I have not checked any sources on this)

It's not recent, it's just not particularly consistent through history because it's not a Quranic restriction specifically, but from Hadith. It's also heavily influenced by which sect is dominant in a given area, and how conservative that flavor of that sect as well. Sunnis are usually dominant, and they're the most strict about iconography. The Shi'as are much more laid back about it.


Thanks for that.

You then you add the complication as to the literal or metaphorical meaning of passages, as a requirement, without them being clearly marked and it just adds to the confusion. I also realise the Hadith is as authoritative as the Quaran for many Muslims but I suspect not all.

I've listened to several Muslim speakers but, like the Christian ones, you never know what they claim to be true of Islam is what others claim to be true. It's a mess.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
"The future must not belong to idiots."
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
chaendlmaier wrote:
Fuck the prophet of Islam. Fuck all these charlatans.


Fuck you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
COMPNOR wrote:
chaendlmaier wrote:
Fuck the prophet of Islam. Fuck all these charlatans.


Fuck you.


Fuck me!
4 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Schaeffer
United States
Unspecified
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Drew1365 wrote:
Yes, he said that early in his speech, but then later went to a more questionable place. If you're saying that the speech was not a cohesive whole, possibly written by committee, and contained contradictions, then I agree.

From the link above:

Quote:
The United Nations, at the behest of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), will debate, once again, the merit of blasphemy laws that could potentially criminalize religious defamation.

“We are living through a period of unease," UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said last week. "We are also seeing incidents of intolerance and hatred that are then exploited by others. Voices of moderation and calm need to make themselves heard at this time. We all need to speak up in favor of mutual respect and understanding of the values and beliefs of others.”

Rev. Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, points out in the Washington Post that "since 1999, the 56-nation Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) has sought to include the issue of religious defamation in UN Human Rights Council resolutions."

Typically the West and human rights organizations have objected such laws on grounds that they would limit free speech. But this year, after an anti-Islam YouTube video sparked deadly riots throughout the world, the global mood is decidedly altered from previous years.


Hey, Drew, you know what? When you mentioned that the President had, later in his speech, gone "to a more questionable place" and then posted that quote "from the link above," it almost looked like you were trying to say the President had said those things. But of course, he hadn't.

That's kind of sloppy, Drew, almost as if you were trying to blur the distinction between the president's actual comments and a report from a news website on a completely different topic. That couldn't be true. You must have real "contradictions" or "questionable" things from the President's speech that make your case for his denigration of the First Amendment, right?
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
slatersteven wrote:
COMPNOR wrote:
chaendlmaier wrote:
Fuck the prophet of Islam. Fuck all these charlatans.


Fuck you.


Fuck me!


Ew, even I have limits.
4 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
chaendlmaier wrote:
Man up, soldier!


You first cupcake.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
I see you...
United States
Avon
Ohio
flag msg tools
"I made a promise on the grave of my parents...
badge
...that I would rid this city of the evil that took their lives. "
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
slatersteven wrote:
COMPNOR wrote:
chaendlmaier wrote:
Fuck the prophet of Islam. Fuck all these charlatans.


Fuck you.


Fuck me!


Buy me dinner first.
1 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon Badolato
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You guys need to get a room !
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tobias Strobe
United States
Oakland
California
flag msg tools
badge
Listen to your sidekick and eat the pennies.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Remember y'all, it's not bullshit, it's a joke!

Haha!

You guys are so stupid. Obama is such a terrible president that it's impossible to tell the difference between shit people made up in order to misrepresent his actions and shit people made up that does misrepresent his actions but is meant as a cutting satire of Liberal Zomboid Suckbitches.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ilthuain wrote:
Remember y'all, it's not bullshit, it's a joke!

Haha!

You guys are so stupid. Obama is such a terrible president that it's impossible to tell the difference between shit people made up in order to misrepresent his actions and shit people made up that does misrepresent his actions but is meant as a cutting satire of Liberal Zomboid Suckbitches.


Who are you and why should people care what you say?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.