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Subject: Discussion Thread for You Know, For Everyone - An Unrestricted Math Trade rss

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Stoic Bird
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Welcome to the discussion thread!

If you're looking for the trade list, it's here.

If you're looking for the request list, it's here.

This is the place to let me know if you have any questions, concerns, gripes, or if you just want to discuss the trade.

My one request: if you have any hiccups with the trading process once the results are final, please try to work things out in private first before going to this thread. I've participated in dozens of math trades, and there have been very few actual issues that weren't caused by a simple mistake or miscommunication that was easily rectified with via GeekMail.

Now that that's out of the way, have fun!
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Jeff Wiles
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WOW! Less than 60 games submitted already, but several are grail games! Looks like this could be a very exciting math trade.
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Jack K
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Thanks for running this Jeremy. I just got done with a local MT but I should be able to throw up add a bunch of items in to this one.

Edit: I read this after posting it and thought that "throwing up" games might be a little rough on my throat...
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Nathan Ehlers
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jeffwiles wrote:

WOW! Less than 60 games submitted already, but several are grail games! Looks like this could be a very exciting math trade.


I don't know, I'll give you Indonesia might be a grail, but the others are just merely oop games on a bubble. Still, I'll bring out the guns if we're going to put some value on the table!
 
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YaVerOt YaVerOt
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It's not quite in the OLWLG yet, and I'm having to re-add shipping details on my items, so if anyone see problems with my listings let me know.

And my friends have been showing interest in Small World so I'll be trying harder for that this time around.
 
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Nathan Ehlers
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anglotiger wrote:
Thanks for running this Jeremy. I just got done with a local MT but I should be able to throw up add a bunch of items in to this one.

Edit: I read this after posting it and thought that "throwing up" games might be a little rough on my throat...


2nd on the thanks! I'm also up for a math trade, especially ones that include our brothers and sisters north of the border.

And Jack, you're thinking too narrowly, I'm sure something like String Railways would be at least tolerable to throw up, maybe even pleasent. Or what about those gummy Carcassonne pieces they gave out at Essen one year?
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Jim Stevens
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Yes, thank you for running this!

I logged into the OLWLG and it said I hadn't synced my collection for 158 days. That means it has been FAR too long since I've participated in a math trade.

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Brenden Johnson
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anglotiger wrote:
I just got done with a local MT but I should be able to throw up add a bunch of items in to this one.

Edit: I read this after posting it and thought that "throwing up" games might be a little rough on my throat...
Ha! Sadly, that reminded me of the single line of dialog from Punky Brewster that has somehow stuck in my head for almost 30 years:

"Hello, what's up, Chuck? Uh...I don't mean 'up chuck' I mean: Chuck, what's up?"
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Stoic Bird
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sirgalin wrote:
jeffwiles wrote:

WOW! Less than 60 games submitted already, but several are grail games! Looks like this could be a very exciting math trade.


I don't know, I'll give you Indonesia might be a grail, but the others are just merely oop games on a bubble. Still, I'll bring out the guns if we're going to put some value on the table!


And keep in mind today's bubble is tomorrow's grail. Everytime I see how much Heroscape sets are selling for now I kick myself for not buying Target out when they were $7 for months...
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Geoff
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Another math trade you say? Sure, I'll bite. Thanks, Jeremy!
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Jim Stevens
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And let's get this out there, especially for using the OLWLG (and later for duplicate protection) before a dozen questions roll in on how to participate in the trade:

Math Trade Video Tutorials

They are worth watching, if I do say so myself whistle
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Jack K
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sirgalin wrote:
jeffwiles wrote:

WOW! Less than 60 games submitted already, but several are grail games! Looks like this could be a very exciting math trade.


I don't know, I'll give you Indonesia might be a grail, but the others are just merely oop games on a bubble. Still, I'll bring out the guns if we're going to put some value on the table!


A grail differs from one person to the next. It just depends upon how much someone wants an item.
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Guy Riessen
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sirgalin wrote:
jeffwiles wrote:

WOW! Less than 60 games submitted already, but several are grail games! Looks like this could be a very exciting math trade.


I don't know, I'll give you Indonesia might be a grail, but the others are just merely oop games on a bubble. Still, I'll bring out the guns if we're going to put some value on the table!


a bit full of our collection aren't we?

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Nathan Ehlers
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Ouch! I hope someone puts some ointment into this MT so I can trade for something to put on this wicked burn.


....


Really, I'm just a firm believer in the idea that a grail game should have a certain magic mystic to it. It should be a little smelly and make you really happy to just own it. Something like Luna doesn't qualify ('cause I say Internets!) because, well, it came out last year, it's temporarily off the shelves due to the Z-man purchase, and the craziness of the BGG market went and doubled it's price. Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against making a fair buck on the free market, I just think it's the difference between one of those trendy, here today, gone in a year restaurants that become fashionable and expensive right now and one that has a few michalin stars behind it.

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Chris Lanning
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First, thanks for the MT opportunity. I don't see anything in the rules specifically preventing me from using PayPal $$ as an entry. It's not exactly a GC, but it's just as good as one to anyone who has a PayPal account. So, am I ok to submit $20 (or more) via PayPal?
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Carl Anderson
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chrislanning8 wrote:
First, thanks for the MT opportunity. I don't see anything in the rules specifically preventing me from using PayPal $$ as an entry. It's not exactly a GC, but it's just as good as one to anyone who has a PayPal account. So, am I ok to submit $20 (or more) via PayPal?


I'd personally say no, but I'm not the moderator. If it was one of my trades, I'd prohibit it, since it's much closer to cash than it is to a gift certificate.
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Stoic Bird
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chrislanning8 wrote:
I don't see anything in the rules specifically preventing me from using PayPal $$ as an entry. It's not exactly a GC, but it's just as good as one to anyone who has a PayPal account. So, am I ok to submit $20 (or more) via PayPal?


The cash rule was meant as not just literal physical money, but covering things like PayPal as well. The reason for this is that many people believe allowing cash makes it too close to an auction, and that it would be skirting the BGG Marketplace if cash were permitted. GCs are a little different in that sometimes people just have them (I've gotten physical gift cards to all kinds of B&M stores through math trades that were unwanted gifts, business giveaways, etc.).

Some think we should get rid of GCs as well. My personal opinion is that it's not worth banning them altogether, or drawing the arbitrary line of saying that the retailer must be specified up front (as that's still no guarantee of pre-purchase). As a more practical matter, the BGG Marketplace is a source of income for the site, and I'd hate to be the one who ruined math trades for everyone by allowing more direct "sales", so that's why I've set the rule that way.

What you could do (I've seen this done before) is list $X GC to any retailer that accepts PayPal. It would be somewhat of an extra step for you, and I apologize, but I hope my reasoning makes sense. Thanks for asking!
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Chris Lanning
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VolcanoLotus wrote:
What you could do (I've seen this done before) is list $X GC to any retailer that accepts PayPal. It would be somewhat of an extra step for you, and I apologize, but I hope my reasoning makes sense. Thanks for asking!


Thanks for the quick response! Your suggestion seems quite reasonable.
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Chris Lanning
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One more thing - should I want to combine items already listed to (hopefully) increase their value and make them more desirable, would I create a new entry with all the items combined and change the original (singular) listings to "Outside of Scope" and +altname+new listing number/description-altname-? Thanks again.
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Kevin B. Smith
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In some future MT, I wonder if cash/GC could be allowed, but only with a "tax". If your cash/GC does trade, you must then donate 5% of the total value to BGG. Obviously it would be on the honor system. It would then synchronize the cash and GC policies, which currently are different from each other for strange, fuzzy reasons. Just a thought.

I chose 5% because a) the extra would help subsidize slackers who cheat, and b) Math trades are such a cool, valuable service that it's worth more than the marketplace. I thought about a (smaller) tax for *listing* your cash/GC, but that seems like too big of a shift.

Would those of you who put up a lot of GC's change your behavior much if something like that were in place?
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Stoic Bird
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chrislanning8 wrote:
One more thing - should I want to combine items already listed to (hopefully) increase their value and make them more desirable, would I create a new entry with all the items combined and change the original (singular) listings to "Outside of Scope" and +altname+new listing number/description-altname-? Thanks again.


Yup, that's it exactly.
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Kurt
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chrislanning8 wrote:
One more thing - should I want to combine items already listed to (hopefully) increase their value and make them more desirable, would I create a new entry with all the items combined and change the original (singular) listings to "Outside of Scope" and +altname+new listing number/description-altname-? Thanks again.

I don't know the official take on this, but my opinion:
- If it's a major change, I usually prefer updating the old listings to "BLANK - No want list will be submitted", and then listing a new item. Sometimes I'll leave a link to the new listing in case people were interested in it and still want to add it.

- I think technically you can clarify editions and info and add value to a trade on the fly, but not do anything that could be construed as decreasing value.

EXAMPLES of what I would consider good updates:
- Adding free shipping
- Adding sweeteners - This could be bad if you aren't paying for shipping (Or only part of it) and the additional weight adds to the expense.
- Filling in missing information - Although this could be on the edge if there are significantly different editions out there, and an old edition is more/less sought after than a newer version.

EXAMPLES of BAD updates:
- Restricting shipping further
- Updating incorrect information on edition, missing parts, or damage.

Basically, when in doubt, you're safer in updating (not deleting) it to a "no want list submitted" item, and then adding a new correct item. Just be extra sure you don't actually submit a want list for it.
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Stoic Bird
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peakhope wrote:
In some future MT, I wonder if cash/GC could be allowed, but only with a "tax". If your cash/GC does trade, you must then donate 5% of the total value to BGG.


Why would the poster be the one donating and not the recipient?

peakhope wrote:
It would then synchronize the cash and GC policies, which currently are different from each other for strange, fuzzy reasons. Just a thought.


I don't know - I think you were around the last time this issue flared up, that prompted the no-GC math trade. I'd previously thought it was fuzzy, but the idea positing of pretty much keeping the money in gaming (most GC entries overall say "online game store" rather than "online retailer") makes sense to me. I suppose the any online retailer ones are a bit fuzzy, but it seems to me we'd be better off either tightening the GC rules a bit (e.g., must be to either a single, specific retailer or to a game store) or just banning them outright if we're after consistency.

peakhope wrote:
Math trades are such a cool, valuable service that it's worth more than the marketplace.


Yeah, but again, banning them would accomplish this in a cleaner fashion. Then we wouldn't have to worry about slackers.

peakhope wrote:
Would those of you who put up a lot of GC's change your behavior much if something like that were in place?


I think it would just result in tightening wants on whoever had to pay the fee, which hurts everyone.
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Jack K
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peakhope wrote:
In some future MT, I wonder if cash/GC could be allowed, but only with a "tax". If your cash/GC does trade, you must then donate 5% of the total value to BGG. Obviously it would be on the honor system. It would then synchronize the cash and GC policies, which currently are different from each other for strange, fuzzy reasons. Just a thought.


To be in line with the BGG Marketplace, it would only actually need to be 3%.

I don't know all of the ins and outs of Paypal but BGG asks you to not pay Marketplace commission until the value is greater than $2. I presume there's some sort of transaction fee they have to pay which makes it better if the amount is $2 or more? Even a $60 GC would fall below that threshold. Of course, with the 5% you suggested that would come down to cover $40 GCs.

My point is that some people are offering $10-15 GCs and would need to trade several before they hit the minimum marketplace commission payment threshold, and that might make it harder for them to keep track of.

None of this is a criticism of the idea at all. I think it's actually pretty interesting. I was just pointing out some things we have to take into account when thinking about it.
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Chris Lanning
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peakhope wrote:
Would those of you who put up a lot of GC's change your behavior much if something like that were in place?


It wouldn't deter me. The sponsor described my situation earlier, I happen to have some revenue lying around in my PayPal account, GCs... I'm really not looking to dodge anything, just trying to make the best use of my resources.

As far as the tax, in an honor system, "cheaters gonna cheat", and I'm not up for subsidizing the behavior. There are several alternatives to taxation, one of which might be: make MTs "members only" where membership is limited to supporting members of the geek - just a thought.
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