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Subject: GO Newbie Needs Help rss

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M T
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Hi Fellow GO-ers,

So, my friend recently got this GO game. He showed me the game and we decided to play. Neither one of us really know what we're doing so I decided to take a picture of the end result of our first 13 x 13 game and see who won (or if either one of us won...). And here's the picture:

[ImageID=GO]


Please, please, please give some feedback! That would be most appreciated! Both of us think we each won the game and the other lost and we just want to know the results!

Thank you in advance!

-GONewb
 
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Sean Franco
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You might need to reexamine capturing rules...
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True Blue Jon
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Yeah, a Go game can't end with the entire board filled up.
 
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M T
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wow, thanks for the quick reply!

so what happens when there's a captured piece, say the "O" and an empty space next to it say the "_" below? is the "O" removed or does it remain there and "_" remains empty? How does the scoring work?

XXXX
XO_X
XXXX

Sorry, we were really just winging it with what we understood of the rules!

thanks again for your responses!
 
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YaVerOt YaVerOt
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Given that there are no liberties on the 13x13 board, all pieces are dead.

But many pieces should have died earlier in the game, and that affects all the later moves.

So review the rules, and try again, maybe with just a 9x9 board. We'll be happy to help.
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True Blue Jon
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GONewb wrote:
wow, thanks for the quick reply!

so what happens when there's a captured piece, say the "O" and an empty space next to it say the "_" below? is the "O" removed or does it remain there and "_" remains empty? How does the scoring work?

XXXX
XO_X
XXXX

Sorry, we were really just winging it with what we understood of the rules!

thanks again for your responses!


You'll need to review "life" and "death". That O piece is dead. If you put another O piece in the empty space, that group of Os dies because they're surrounded by Xs. If you put an X in the empty space, the single O dies because it's surrounded by Xs. But you can also just see there's no way that O can ever escape so it's "dead" and there's no need to play another stone in the empty space.
 
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YaVerOt YaVerOt
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I type slow...

GONewb wrote:
wow, thanks for the quick reply!

so what happens when there's a captured piece, say the "O" and an empty space next to it say the "_" below? is the "O" removed or does it remain there and "_" remains empty? How does the scoring work?

XXXX
XO_X
XXXX

Sorry, we were really just winging it with what we understood of the rules!

thanks again for your responses!


O in that spot isn't actually dead yet, but would still be declared dead at the end of the game since it can't "make life". If X plays on _, then the O is captured and removed from the board immediately. O can't play on _ as that would be a suicide move, but other O pieces could surround the Xs meaning that then O could then play on _ and kill all the Xs.
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True Blue Jon
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yaverot wrote:
I type slow...

GONewb wrote:
wow, thanks for the quick reply!

so what happens when there's a captured piece, say the "O" and an empty space next to it say the "_" below? is the "O" removed or does it remain there and "_" remains empty? How does the scoring work?

XXXX
XO_X
XXXX

Sorry, we were really just winging it with what we understood of the rules!

thanks again for your responses!


O in that spot isn't actually dead yet, but would still be declared dead at the end of the game since it can't "make life". If X plays on _, then the O is captured and removed from the board immediately. O can't play on _ as that would be a suicide move, but other O pieces could surround the Xs meaning that then O could play on _ and kill all the Xs.


To lessen the confusion, this post is correct, not mine.
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Russ Williams
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You need to grok the concept that a stone (or group of connected same-color stones) needs "liberties" (adjacent empty spaces) to be alive. If its last liberty is filled, then it's removed from the board. There can never be a situation where a stone (or group of same-color stones) has no adjacent empty spaces. On your photo, various groups still in play should have been removed earlier.

You might try playing "capture go" (a commonly used learning variant for beginners) to get a feel for this: Whoever captures an enemy stone first wins, simply. Once you get the basic concepts of liberties and life, you will be better able to play real go.
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Maarten D. de Jong
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GONewb wrote:
Sorry, we were really just winging it with what we understood of the rules!

Here you can find easy to understand rules: They fit on a single sheet of paper (3/4rs of which is example), and will get you started properly.

If you fancy a book to learn from I recommend Kaoru Iwamoto's Go for Beginners which can be had for a very agreeable price here.

Looking at the images I'll add, very superfluously, that you need to review the concept of 'liberties' of a group. And that for your first skirmishes, playing on a smaller board like 9 x 9 helps cement the rules more quickly.
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Jared Hayter

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This interactive tutorial will teach you how to play go step by step:

http://playgo.to/iwtg/en/

And this website will let you practice playing first capture go:

http://361points.com/capturego/
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Richard Ghilardi
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Here are 5 easy steps to determine whether any stones are captured or not:

1) Place a stone.

2) Have any groups lost all their liberties?
No. Your turn is done. Stop reading.
Yes. Keep reading.

3) Opponent groups only?
No. Keep reading.
Yes. Remove those groups. Your turn is done. Stop reading.

4) Your groups only?
No. Keep reading.
Yes. Your placement is illegal (suicide). Retract your stone. Go to # 1.

5) Imagine that the opponent groups are removed. Have your groups each gained at least 1 liberty?
No. Your placement is illegal (suicide). Retract your stone. Go to # 1.
Yes. Remove the opponent groups. Your turn is done.

This procedure assumes that you already know what a liberty is and what a group is.

Oeco
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Ramon Mercado
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quozl wrote:
yaverot wrote:
I type slow...

GONewb wrote:
wow, thanks for the quick reply!

so what happens when there's a captured piece, say the "O" and an empty space next to it say the "_" below? is the "O" removed or does it remain there and "_" remains empty? How does the scoring work?

XXXX
XO_X
XXXX

Sorry, we were really just winging it with what we understood of the rules!

thanks again for your responses!


O in that spot isn't actually dead yet, but would still be declared dead at the end of the game since it can't "make life". If X plays on _, then the O is captured and removed from the board immediately. O can't play on _ as that would be a suicide move, but other O pieces could surround the Xs meaning that then O could play on _ and kill all the Xs.


To lessen the confusion, this post is correct, not mine.


This is clearly not the best medium to explain these concepts. IMO the best is to use the interactive link above, but to further clarify. A stone cannot be "dead" or "alive" as this is a property of a group. Groups are alive if they have two eyes (thus, the joke "why did the cyclops died ). Since a single stone can never have two (or more) eyes it can never be alive. Now, a singel stone can be captured... this is a different concept. All dead groups are captured, and all captured stones should be remove from the board at the end of the game, before counting.
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Russ Williams
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rmercado wrote:
Since a single stone can never have two (or more) eyes it can never be alive.


Hmm.

Northwest corner of board:

O.OX.
.OOX.
OOXX.
XXXX.
.....

There is a single white stone and (not connected to it, but certainly "supporting" it) a group of 5 white stones (O). They are all alive and cannot be captured, even though there is a single stone in the corner.

Quote:
Now, a singel stone can be captured...

The single stone in the corner of that example cannot be captured.

Life is not so simple to describe...
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Ramon Mercado
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russ wrote:
Life is not so simple...


Agreed ...
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