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Descent: Journeys in the Dark» Forums » Rules

Subject: Heroes killing themselves or each other / Dark Relics rss

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Frank Otte
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With this thread I just want to warm-up a long living theme about Descent, namely, are heroes allowed to kill themselves or each other respectively? I think, I have read, that the general answer for both is "No". On the base of this answer, I want to rise some follow up thoughts.

(1) How is this prohibition consistent with the fact, that you always attack spaces, not figures in Descent? I mean, you could always argue, that you "only" attack a space, where "by chance" is an hero on it, right? In a regular attack, you still can distinguish, but this case becomes more complicated, if you take area attacks into account. Is a breath attack from a hero, which engulfs only other heroes, an attack on a hero? Is a blast attack from a hero, which targets a space adjacent to another hero (and no other figures near) an attack on a comrade? What, if a hero moves another hero into and out of a pit or on lava, several times by telecinetics, is that allowed?

(2) The prohibition to attack yourself rises similar questions. Probably it can be easily avoided by a blast attack targeting a space adjacent to yourself, moving yourself into Aura, a pit, on lava or similar.

(3) If it's either allowed to kill each other and yourself, or, if at least, it's easy to circumvent such a prohibition, what worth is it for the overlord, to play Dark Relics, which can be discarded after death, except removing some conquest tokens by that and deny the heroes one treasure (namely the one, which was exchanged with the dark relic)?

(4) Btw, in a single quest, if a Dark Relic is discarded by death of the hero, is it out of the game permanently, or can the overlord reuse it? Is this different in an advanced campaign?
 
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Master of the Waz
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St. Peters
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Heroes can attack and kill themselves and each other.

Breath/Blast attacks that hit heroes do hurt them and can kill them.
 
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Frank Otte
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I know, that heroes are hurt by all area attacks. The question was, if heroes are allowed to intentionally hit other hereos, and only them, by area attacks.

If this should be true, that heroes are allowed to attack themselves and each other, this makes Dark Relics effectively worthless (or at least not worth their cost), at least in later parts of longer quests and in advanced campaigns.
 
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Master of the Waz
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The heroes waste turns, giving you back threat, then die giving you conquest. Sounds worth it to me.
 
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Retired Hurt

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And don't forget that the Dark Relic effect
- negates one magical item (not bad in early Silver / early Gold)
- perhaps costs them another (you need to put your former armor / weapon somewhere), or maybe more (if you force the holder of some magic-user garment to discard it, losing the extra space)
- may cost them some potions (Lodestone)
- will be utterly destructive if you hand the Lodestone to the holder of the Bag of Holding
 
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Frank Otte
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Admitted, this is all true. But at least I can say, that the lovingly designed effects of the dark relics usually don't survive three or four rounds until the affected hero managed to provoke his own death.

Or with other words, playing a dark relic might be worth it because of the mentioned side effects. But as overlord, don't rely on the fact, that it's effective for more than a (tactical) moment.

Btw, you mentioned the pack of holding, I always wanted to know, if, should the pack of holding is lost or destroyed, all his contents are lost, too, or if the affected hero has a chance to decide, what items he drops and what he keeps in his (reduced capacity) pack.

And what about discarded Dark Relics, can they be reused, or not?
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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The only restriction on attacks vs self/other heroes is that a hero cannot target his own space (except when Charmed).

In ACs, Dark Relics are definitely not sent to the graveyard, so still available.

In vanilla I think they are 'discarded' like other dropped treasure items so are not available again.
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