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Subject: Rank the Cards! rss

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Mark Johnson
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When ranking them, rank each of them as if they were in your initial hand of cards from the draft so that your first choice could be hidden from the opponent and you could get the card out early if you wanted.

Poll
Rank the cards. 1 Star being terrible/least favorite and 5 being the most powerful/your favorite.
  1 Star 2 Stars 3 Stars 4 Stars 5 Stars
01 - Amulet of Air
02 - Amulet of Fire
03 - Amulet of Earth
04 - Amulet of Water
05 - Balance of Ishtar
06 - Staff of Spring
07 - Temporal Boots
08 - Purse of Io
09 - Divine Chalice
10 - Syllas the Faithful
11 - Figrim the Avaricious
12 - Naria the Prophetess
13 - Wondrous Chest
14 - Beggar's Horn
15 - Die of Malice
16 - Kairn the Destroyer
17 - Amsung Longneck
18 - Bespelled Grimoire
19 - Ragfield's Helm
20 - Hand of Fortune
21 - Lewis Greyface
22 - Runic Cube of Eolis
23 - Potion of Power
24 - Potion of Dreams
25 - Potion of Knowledge
26 - Potion of Life
27 - Hourglass of Time
28 - Scepter of Greatness
29 - Olaf's Blessed Statue
30 - Yjang’s Forgotten Vase
31 - Elemental Amulet
32 - Tree of Light
33 - Arcano Leech
34 - Cyrstal Orb
35 - Glutton Cauldron
36 - Vampiric Crown
37 - Dragon Skull
38 - Demon of Argos
39 - Titus Deepgaze
40 - Air Elemental
41 - Thieving Fairies
42 - Cursed Treatise of Arus
43 - Idol of the Familiar
44 - Necrotic Kriss
45 - Lantern of Xidit
46 - Sealed Chest of Urm
47 - Mirror of the Seasons
48 - Pendant of Ragnor
49 - Sid Nightshade
50 - Damned Soul of Onys
      99 answers
Poll created by Eeeville
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Dicky P
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This is going to be interesting. Thanks for putting this up.
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James Deignan
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I will say that some of the value is based on when you get it, but I'm approaching the idea from the perspective of the initial draft. (I like seeing Potion of Dreams in an initial draft, I hate seeing potion of dreams when I'm drawing a card late in year 2.)
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Mark Johnson
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Zestrenocya wrote:
I will say that some of the value is based on when you get it, but I'm approaching the idea from the perspective of the initial draft. (I like seeing Potion of Dreams in an initial draft, I hate seeing potion of dreams when I'm drawing a card late in year 2.)


That's how I intended the voting to be done as I stated in my first post
 
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Kim Williams
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One difficulty with trying to rank cards in this way is that some cards are only particularly strong in association with other cards.

For instance, I had one of my few successful games recently with the Idol of the Familiars card, which I had grabbed early in the drafting process as I had seen that there was a very high number of familiars amongst the cards. This enabled me to get a large number of crystals throughout the game, peaking at the end at 6 points per turn just from this card (of course the other familiar cards gave me further benefits). By contrast in some games we've hardly seen any familiars, and therefore the value of the Idol would be diminished.
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Stefan Brunell
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Looks like somebody had fun voting a 1 on every card...
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Ben Garbe
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As others have mentioned, the value of many of these cards really depends on the other cards in your hand/in play. That being said, I'll ALWAYS draft DIVINE CHALICE first if it's available The ability to choose four cards and summon one for free is pretty awesome in addition to the 10 prestige points it grants. It's especially cool when you get to summon RUNIC CUBE OF EOLIS and get that +30 at zero cost!
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Kim Williams
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The Runic Cube of Eolis and the Lantern of Xidit become attractive cards to draft if you've already drafted the Potion Of Dreams. That way you can summon them for free (if you've just emptied your energy reserves) other than the 2 air it costs to summon the Potion of Dreams.

Without the Potion of Dreams, the Rubic Cube of Eolis isn't that thrilling. The Lantern of Xidit is still quite tempting but again depends on your other cards (if I know lots of my other cards have crystals costs, or my other cards yield me energy tokens then I'll take it very readily)

The more I've thought about my favourite cards to draft the more I've come up with 'it depends on...'. Even who your opponent is affects choices. Knowing Anthony's card playing preferences will definitely affect my decisions. Equally playing with my children I will try and avoid those cards that take things away from them and focus on still trying to win but doing so in a way that they'll find less painful (and I really appreciate the fact that in Seasons you have that choice!)

Edit: As pointed out below I got my potions muddled! Now fixed.
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Mark Johnson
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“Brothers, oh brothers, my days here are done, the Dornishman’s taken my life, But what does it matter, for all men must die, and I’ve tasted the Dornishman’s wife!”
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Dreams is the one that summons for free. Power is the summoning level and a card. You were right that the potion that summons for free costs 2 Air. Not sure if that affects your vote or not.
 
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*Lorenzo*
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entwife wrote:

The Runic Cube of Eolis and the Lantern of Xidit become attractive cards to draft if you've already drafted the Potion Of Power. That way you can draft them for free (if you've just emptied your energy reserves) other than the 2 air it costs to summon the Potion of Power.

Without the Potion of Power, the Rubic Cube of Eolis isn't that thrilling. The Lantern of Xidit is still quite tempting but again depends on your other cards (if I know lots of my other cards have crystals costs, or my other cards yield me energy tokens then I'll take it very readily)

i agree with you Kim, but you are talking about Potion of Dreams and not Potion of Power...or i just miss something?

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Kim Williams
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Sorry, yes Potions of Dreams was what I meant, that's what comes of posting before my brain's fully in gear!
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Ninja P
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Zestrenocya wrote:
I will say that some of the value is based on when you get it, but I'm approaching the idea from the perspective of the initial draft. (I like seeing Potion of Dreams in an initial draft, I hate seeing potion of dreams when I'm drawing a card late in year 2.)


True, weak cards can be enhanced if there's another card that comboes well with it (Potion of Dreams becomes much better with Lantern or Cube, Dragon Skull with 0 cost magic items/Treatise/Damned Soul, Beggar's Horn with Kairn/Cauldron or other energies spender), but the ranking should be about how good they are in general, or how explosive the effect they could be (while not being terrible in general). Some of the prime examples of the former includes Divine Chalice, and cards that save you energies like Vase and Hand of Fortune, while Thieving Fairies and Temporal Boots can be a game changer in most games.

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James Clarke
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entwife wrote:
One difficulty with trying to rank cards in this way is that some cards are only particularly strong in association with other cards.
This particular factor is quite a drawback when you are trying to assign an individual score to each card.

Suggestion for the next poll; What would be your perfect 9 card draft? For this to work, I suppose you would have to rule that all 9 cards must be unique.
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I think it's easier, for me at least, to rank cards by a three star system.

Cards I don't find universally useful.

Cards that are dependent on the game state, and depending on how they're played may be excellent, or ineffectual.

Cards that I find universally powerful, and will take them above the majority of other cards in the draft.

I only have a few three star cards, and I only rank a few cards with one star, which leaves the majority of them in the two star range, which I think makes for a really good game. You want a majority of your cards to be game-state dependent, but with a mix of some great, and some not so great cards.
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Jeff C
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I think it is interesting seeing these rankings. You can tell some of the votes are from folks who have played it only a few times. Im surprised Wondrous Chest is ranked so low, I've yet to lose a game (over 80 plays on BGA) when i get it out in year 1. Granted, you need to know how to construct a hand around it.
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Ninja P
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Geek Scribe wrote:
I think it is interesting seeing these rankings. You can tell some of the votes are from folks who have played it only a few times. Im surprised Wondrous Chest is ranked so low, I've yet to lose a game (over 80 plays on BGA) when i get it out in year 1. Granted, you need to know how to construct a hand around it.


I found it surprising as well. I think I am the one who assigned a 5 to it.
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Stefan Brunell
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Geek Scribe wrote:
I think it is interesting seeing these rankings. You can tell some of the votes are from folks who have played it only a few times. Im surprised Wondrous Chest is ranked so low, I've yet to lose a game (over 80 plays on BGA) when i get it out in year 1. Granted, you need to know how to construct a hand around it.


I put a 4, a very well deserve 4.

I only give a 5 to Temporal Boots, controling time is a very big thing, and for a 0 cost for 8 points it's only better. It's the only card I really care about if the other player have it in hands, maybe also Syllas, but usually I try to play a card that I don't care after I played it (Vampiric crown, Titus, Olaf Statue etc)for Syllas, and I'm happy to have the extra space I just receive. Even with a negative value I would take the boots anytime.

The only ''1'' I gave is to the Balance of Ishtar, sometimes it's good, but it's always the last card draft in all the games I played. You need other cards to make it valuable, at least more then all the rest. It's the only one card with a negative value, so you NEED to make it valuable, compare to all the others.
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Brian Gee
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I think most of the rankings so far are pretty reasonable, but I can't believe how low Pendant of Ragnor is. It can either give you all the energy you need for other cards, or it can be used for big end game scoring by transmuting a ton of one colour. It works even better with the grimoire...

Edit: Also surprised at the low ranking of the Grimoire itself, I often consider it or choose it for a first pick, assuming there are no instant pick cards like Divine Chalice.
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Mark Johnson
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“Brothers, oh brothers, my days here are done, the Dornishman’s taken my life, But what does it matter, for all men must die, and I’ve tasted the Dornishman’s wife!”
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downstream wrote:
Also surprised at the low ranking of the Grimoire itself, I often consider it or choose it for a first pick, assuming there are no instant pick cards like Divine Chalice.


Good planning and management of energy means it's benefit isn't that great unless you draft cards like Cauldron, Pendant, Crown, and Potion of Knowledge where you would likely go over the 7 cap.

I'm surprised by the lack of love for Cauldron. I don't think it's a 4 or 5 or anything, but I think it's a good year 1 card if you don't see Fairies in the draft. Definitely a 3 in my books, though I'm happy to let people hand it to me.
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Brian Gee
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Eeeville wrote:
downstream wrote:
Also surprised at the low ranking of the Grimoire itself, I often consider it or choose it for a first pick, assuming there are no instant pick cards like Divine Chalice.


Good planning and management of energy means it's benefit isn't that great unless you draft cards like Cauldron, Pendant, Crown, and Potion of Knowledge where you would likely go over the 7 cap.


Yes but there seems to be quite a lot of cards like that. To your list I would also add Greyface. It also works well with Potion of Life and Lantern of Xidit. It gives you flexibility to build up energy for an expensive card like Lantern without putting you in a position of having to transmute at a lower value to prevent your reserve from filling. Add to that the fact that it is essentially free since it returns the two energy, plus it can act as a fixer for a colour you need. It seems practically always useful compared to a card like Cauldron that can be made useless just by an opponent having Fairies. Even worse if the Fairies are drawn after the draft or first picked, and come down after you have a couple of energy stored.
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James Clarke
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Choosing to debate the findings of a poll at such an early stage of the voting is undesirable, in the sense that it could unwittingly skew the final outcome. Even the act of looking at the scores before you vote, could influence the way you vote. Both of these are true, or else none of us are influenced by advertising.


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Dicky P
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Highland Cow wrote:
Choosing to debate the findings of a poll at such an early stage of the voting is undesirable, in the sense that it could unwittingly skew the final outcome. Even the act of looking at the scores before you vote, could influence the way you vote. Both of these are true, or else none of us are influenced by advertising.



Probably true that you might be influenced; IF you read them before voting

I can only speak for myself but I always vote first and then review afterwards.

This has more value to me as it provides a challenge to my own voting as well as opportunity to consider why others might be different.

Also I don't regard this as "fixed in time" poll and whilst the poll remains open I anticipate that I may change my votes as I play the game more and more, and new strategies are developed. Not necessarily because of discussions here.

I think that in the early days the voting will be more skewd by how the individual approaches the process. These might include

- 50 cards so have 10 cards in each of the five voting categories.

- Aim to achieve a normal distribution against an average (say 3 here?)

- Or just some some gut feel on a card by card basis.

I am sure that there will be a combination of all the above, and others? and it will take time for any meaningful picture to average out.

In the meantime I like the early discussions (as I have made my initial votes).

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Cristian Cano
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To be more complete, in addition there should be 3 polls for every card... what do you think about each card for year 1, 2 and 3.
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Mattia Zabini
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I think that Thieving fairies are really too strong...is there any counter strategy? If opponent gets 2 there is no game.
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Lee Fisher
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Nakedape wrote:
I think that Thieving fairies are really too strong...is there any counter strategy? If opponent gets 2 there is no game.


Really? There are plenty of strategies that require little or no activation, and 1-2 crystals to activate may not be that painful.
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