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Subject: Fantasy Flight Reprint Rules are on their site! rss

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Ron Vickers
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http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/PDF/furyofdracularules.pdf
 
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Robert Martin
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Looks like the only major change to the game is Dracula's movement mechanic. Instead of moving on a hidden copy of the map, Dracula uses a deck of location cards, which he puts into a queue. This seems to introduce some odd rules such as not being able to double back, only having encounters on six locations at a time, moving extra encounters to the "catacombs", and "maturing" encounters as they drop off the end of the queue. Seems like it would have been simpler to just stick with the hidden map.

More minor changes include the addition of a fourth hunter (Mina), a predictable day/night cycle, no player elimination, additional hunter and dracula powers, and "allies" (eg Jonathan Harker).

Amazingly, FFG seems to have added even more chrome to an already chrome-laden game!
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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I've just been looking at the rules to the new Fury of Dracula game from FFG, and as a consequence would strongly recommend that the new game gets a separate entry in the database from the original. It is clearly based on the Games Workshop classic, but is a redesign, not a re-release. The differences between the new and old versions are at least as large as those that resulted in separate listings for the old and new versions of Arkham Horror.

I'm a big fan of the older game, and doubt at this point that I will like the new one as well. However, I do think the redesign of Arkham Horror was an improvement, so I'm trying to keep an open mind.

I agree with previous posters that the movement cards sound like a step backwards from the hidden map in the old version. The rules say that sea zones have different backs from cities, so the hunters will always know whether Dracula is sea. There goes the struggle to play or cancel 'Shipping Agents', a key strategy element in the original.

Another 'improvement' is a fixed day/night cycle, so that lovely bit of tension has been removed as well.

As I said, I'm trying to keep an open mind so I'm not going to make a laundry list of all my quibbles at this point. I'll wait until I've played the new one to make up my mind as to whether the new game is as good as the old - but that won't happen until somebody else in my circle buys it...

 
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Kayl
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Would someone who has played a lot of the old and read the new venture a guess as to whether or not you'd be able to play the new game with the old rules if you so choose?

From what's been said by the posters so far, it doesn't sound as though you couldn't
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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kayl wrote:
Would someone who has played a lot of the old and read the new venture a guess as to whether or not you'd be able to play the new game with the old rules if you so choose?

From what's been said by the posters so far, it doesn't sound as though you couldn't


I don't think you could do it. The card decks are going to be very different - no Shipping Agents, none of the Day/Night cards, etc. Lots of other problems, too, but that is enough right there. Like I said above, this is basically a new game.
 
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Jack Wraith
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ejamer wrote:
But there is one thing that I'm kind of iffy on: the card-based movement for Dracula. No backtracking,


Read the rules again (I know there's a lot of them; 32 pages(!)): one of Dracula's powers allows him to backtrack. I think the point of the new system and things like it being obvious when Dracula is at sea is because of the tendency of the old game to produce Dracula victories by that player simply staying on the fringes of the map the whole time so that the Hunters rarely did anything but chase him everywhere. That's my speculation, anyway...
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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Jackwraith wrote:

... I think the point of the new system and things like it being obvious when Dracula is at sea is because of the tendency of the old game to produce Dracula victories by that player simply staying on the fringes of the map the whole time so that the Hunters rarely did anything but chase him everywhere. That's my speculation, anyway...


I think you've got it backwards.

In the old game, Dracula could not win by hiding and doing nothing - he had to place vampires to do so. In the new game, every time the advance of the Day/Night marker indicates a new day, Dracula gets to 'advance his Vampire Track by one'.

It sounds as if the new version has created the possibility of Dracula winning by staying on the fringes and doing nothing, not eliminated it.
 
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Jack Wraith
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Sphere wrote:
In the old game, Dracula could not win by hiding and doing nothing - he had to place vampires to do so. In the new game, every time the advance of the Day/Night marker indicates a new day, Dracula gets to 'advance his Vampire Track by one'.

It sounds as if the new version has created the possibility of Dracula winning by staying on the fringes and doing nothing, not eliminated it.


But, if I'm correct here, that's what the Resolve ability is for. With Resolve, the Hunters can jump ahead in clues to discover where Dracula is. I think the point of the new system, overall, is to keep games from dragging out. The Hunters are compelled to find Dracula before too many days pass. Meanwhile, their Resolve builds and makes it easier for them to do so, at which point the burden falls on Dracula to keep moving and stay ahead of them.

Having finally read the rules cover to cover, that's how it seems to be adding up to me. In any case, it's anyone's guess how well it will work. I've posted a couple questions on FFG's boards to one of the playtesters, in terms of how annoying or not it was for the Dracula player to keep track of where he'd been and so forth...
 
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Alferd Packer
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Shipping agents are one of the allies in the deck. IIRC, they increase the cost of Dracula going to sea, making it undesirable to sail your way around Europe. There are cards which adjust the day/night track.

There are ways for Dracula to double back without using the back track card. Wolf-form being a particularly devious one.

I found that a set progression of day and night increased the tension rather than removing it. The game becomes terrifying at night with the fear that you are about to be set upon by dracula or a vampire. You're hot on Dracula's trail when *BAM!* it's night and suddenly being right behind him becomes much less desirable.

 
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AlferdPacker wrote:
Shipping agents are one of the allies in the deck. IIRC, they increase the cost of Dracula going to sea, making it undesirable to sail your way around Europe.


In the new game, Drac loses blood every other turn while at sea, which by itself would eliminate long sea voyages. Clever sea moves, like circling around the British Isles to make an apparently long sea voyage actually be a physically short one, won't be available in the new game.

AlferdPacker wrote:

There are cards which adjust the day/night track.

There are ways for Dracula to double back without using the back track card. Wolf-form being a particularly devious one.


But Drac can no longer deceive by not moving, or moving and not placing encounters. This is definitely a new game, not a reissue.

AlferdPacker wrote:

I found that a set progression of day and night increased the tension rather than removing it. The game becomes terrifying at night with the fear that you are about to be set upon by dracula or a vampire. You're hot on Dracula's trail when *BAM!* it's night and suddenly being right behind him becomes much less desirable.



I don't see how the fear of night combat some of the time would be more tense than the fear of night combat all of the time.
 
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Alferd Packer
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Sphere wrote:

In the new game, Drac loses blood every other turn while at sea, which by itself would eliminate long sea voyages. Clever sea moves, like circling around the British Isles to make an apparently long sea voyage actually be a physically short one, won't be available in the new game.

It is still possible, you just have to decide if it's worth the cost. Shipping agents increase that cost.

Quote:

But Drac can no longer deceive by not moving, or moving and not placing encounters. This is definitely a new game, not a reissue.


He can still deceive by not moving. And using wolf form allows him to move and not place an encounter. Granted these are things that can't be used continually, but I think that's a good thing. Moving without placing an encounter only stretches out the length of the game. In the old version when Dracula did this, there was no way for hhe hunters to find him barring luck or newspaper reports. That was less than fun.

Quote:
I don't see how the fear of night combat some of the time would be more tense than the fear of night combat all of the time.


It allows both the hunters and Dracula to control combat to a greater degree. Having to rely on a dice roll to determine if it was night or not essentially reduced combat to that roll. Fighting Dracula at noght was frequently suicidal. Dracula fighting during the day almost guaranteed his death. And there was almost no way to control it. In game where almost everything else was skill, reducing combat to a single die roll was infuriating.


In the GW version, having a good game required having a good Dracula player who was willing to play the game in a friendly manner; rather than shuffling his encounters for Vampires. This version removes the asshole Dracula player.
 
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I had the good fortuune to play test the game a number of times, so I can speak from at least some experience re: the game.

While I agree that Dracula's options have been limited somewhat, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Those limitations give Dracula some incredibly devious options that aren't immediately apparent.

Using some of his powers in conjunction with each other can confuse the hell out the players. Hide and wolf-form for example.

The game doesn't quite boil down to the extremes you've taken it. There is more combat between players in the old version, yes. Dracula can still hide his trail though. In some cases it's even easier as the trail is cleared through maturing an encounter like a Vampire or Scorched Earth.

There's more deduction on the part of the Hunters in the updted version. I, for one, really enjoy the feeling of working through the process. Dracula was at Paris, we know he moved to Brussels, he has options Berlin and Munich from there; he must be in Bern! (Disclaimer: locations may not bear any relation to the actual board) There's a feeling of accomplishment from having deduced where Dracula is from having 2 cards revealed in his trail. However, 2 out 3 times I had that glowing feeling, Dracula had done something tricky with his powers and eluded me completely.
 
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Once we accept the fact that the FFG version is a different game entirely, it becomes pointless to quibble over point by point differences. The question becomes: how good is the new game, taken as a whole?

The old GW version is perhaps my favorite game of all time. If the new one is equally good, I will be impressed.
 
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Matthew Cary
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kayl wrote:
Would someone who has played a lot of the old and read the new venture a guess as to whether or not you'd be able to play the new game with the old rules if you so choose?

From what's been said by the posters so far, it doesn't sound as though you couldn't


I also playtested along with Alfred Packer (who was the first person other than the game designer to score a Dracula victory during testing!).


I'd have to say the you could not run the game under the old rules. The deck is about 75% the same, but the other 25% is quite different, there is no screen for Dracula, and the weapons have been slightly changed in power. (The pistol easier to hit with, but less powerful than the Rifle, the Holy Bullets are a bit more dangerous to Dracula)
 
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Matthew Cary
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Sphere wrote:
Once we accept the fact that the FFG version is a different game entirely, it becomes pointless to quibble over point by point differences. The question becomes: how good is the new game, taken as a whole?

The old GW version is perhaps my favorite game of all time. If the new one is equally good, I will be impressed.


I am a huge fan of the Games Workshop version of the game, and I agree with Sphere in calling for a new listing. In my opinion, this version is different enought to warrent an new page.

I also want to emphasize that I really enjoyed this game in playtest and look foreward to getting it when it comes out.


Kevin Wilson repeatedly said during Playtesting that his goal was to increase the amount of interaction between Dracula and the Hunters. The new game makes it harder for Dracula to remain completely out of the hunters reach for the entire game, but it also really cranks up the game of wits between the two sides when part of Dracula's trail has been revealed.
As Alfred Packer said, the hunters get a real feeling of acomplishment when they track Dracula down. But all too often the Count is too wiley and slips between their fingers. In the old version of the game, only the count could appreciate the fun of dancing between the hunters. In the new version the Hunters can be so close they can taste victory only to have the Count slip away as a wolf or bat, clear his trail, and vanish....
All the while, the Vampires keep piling up and the hunters get more and more hurt.

This is IMHO a big improvement from the GW version, where the Hunters might wander around Europe looking for some clue only to have the Count announce that he had won a major victory and begin packing up the game!
 
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Jackwraith wrote:

But, if I'm correct here, that's what the Resolve ability is for. With Resolve, the Hunters can jump ahead in clues to discover where Dracula is. I think the point of the new system, overall, is to keep games from dragging out. The Hunters are compelled to find Dracula before too many days pass. Meanwhile, their Resolve builds and makes it easier for them to do so, at which point the burden falls on Dracula to keep moving and stay ahead of them.

Having finally read the rules cover to cover, that's how it seems to be adding up to me. In any case, it's anyone's guess how well it will work. I've posted a couple questions on FFG's boards to one of the playtesters, in terms of how annoying or not it was for the Dracula player to keep track of where he'd been and so forth...


It really isn't that bad to keep track of where you were. You only have to remember 7 cards (including the one you are standing on) and they are all going to be contiguous.

The new game does keep thing moving. The built in timer presses the Hunters to find Dracula QUICKLY!. You do not have time to sit and rest for long if you are hurt, and the new game really slows down how quickly you can gain weapons. Losing your Cross to a Customs Inspection is a much bigger deal than it used to be.

When the Hunters cross Dracula's trail, they *will* find encounters. Encounters wear a hunter down and prevent him from Resupplying or resting. When you combine this with Dracula's ability to time his attacks with the Day/Night counter or simply slip away to sea or hop over the Hunters as a wolf the game is far from one sided.

In playtest we saw agressive Draculas that picked off weakend hunters and wiley Draculas that hid and waited for Vampires to rack up from mature encounters and a running clock. Both approaches gave everyone alot to think about, and alot of chances to sweat.

(Lest it sound like Dracula is overpowered, We also saw Lord Godalming beat the count to death with a Cross. And VanHelsing Stake him. And Mina shoot him with Holy Bullets inside Castle Dracula, and.....)
 
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A question to the playtesters:

If the first Hunters enters a location where Dracula is and survives the encounter and then battles Dracula to a stand of (getting an end result in combat), can then the following Hunter enter the same Location to initiate a group combat with the Count?

 
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Matthew Cary
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Veldrin wrote:
A question to the playtesters:

If the first Hunters enters a location where Dracula is and survives the encounter and then battles Dracula to a stand of (getting an end result in combat), can then the following Hunter enter the same Location to initiate a group combat with the Count?



Hunters can only form a group if none of them have acted yet on that turn. If all four hunters converge on a spot with the count, they each fight him one at a time. (They must encounter Dracula, they can't wait for help if they are already in the same space as the Count)
To form a group the hunters have to meet, wait until their next turns, form up, then have the last one of them to go move the entire group into combat.
 
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So obvious but yet so far away...

That is good since I was afraid one hunter could discover Drac's location and then the rest could use Resolve to gang up on him.

Glad to hear that is not possible.
 
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