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Subject: Cthulhu as Ancient One rss

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David Chwala
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I searched for answers to these questions for I'm sure they must've come up but to no avail. And everyone on this site is usually prompt and specific when answering questions so I hope you won't mind if it's already somewhere in the rules forums.

Recently, I pulled Cthulhu as my Ancient One, and Harvey Walters, Michael McGlen, and Amanda Sharpe as my investigators (I always pick everyone at random). I bring them up because my questions regard their special abilities. Frequent players will recall Prof. Walter's and Mr. McGlen's special abilities, but I will remind those who aren't aware. Walter may reduce any sanity damage taken, to a minimum of zero; McGlen has the same ability but instead concerning his stamina. Maybe some of you will begin to see what I'm getting at...

As usual in my games, the Ancient One awoke, and this is where my questions begin. First off, Cthulhu's ongoing effect (that all investigators have their maximum stamina/sanity reduced by one) is no longer in effect during the final fight, correct? He is, after all, no longer "stirring in his slumber."

Next, his attack reads "Each investigator lowers either his maximum Sanity or Maximum Stamina by 1 (his choice)." If I were Harvey or Michael, I'd pick sanity and stamina, respectively, and use my special ability to receive no damage at all. Clearly this must be wrong. Are investigators' abilities ignored during final fights or just these kinds of abilities? It seems like they should have at least some effect in the final fight, perhaps delaying their damage to at least every other turn...

Thank you guys again in advance for your responses.
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Rauli Kettunen
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First, Cthulhu's ability of -1 Sta and San remains even after he wakes up. Second, Cthulhu's attack reduces Maximum Sta or San, Harvey and Michael have nothing to prevent this.
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brian
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mountainpony wrote:
I searched for answers to these questions for I'm sure they must've come up but to no avail. And everyone on this site is usually prompt and specific when answering questions so I hope you won't mind if it's already somewhere in the rules forums.

Recently, I pulled Cthulhu as my Ancient One, and Harvey Walters, Michael McGlen, and Amanda Sharpe as my investigators (I always pick everyone at random). I bring them up because my questions regard their special abilities. Frequent players will recall Prof. Walter's and Mr. McGlen's special abilities, but I will remind those who aren't aware. Walter may reduce any sanity damage taken, to a minimum of zero; McGlen has the same ability but instead concerning his stamina. Maybe some of you will begin to see what I'm getting at...

As usual in my games, the Ancient One awoke, and this is where my questions begin. First off, Cthulhu's ongoing effect (that all investigators have their maximum stamina/sanity reduced by one) is no longer in effect during the final fight, correct? He is, after all, no longer "stirring in his slumber."

No, it remains. "Stirring in his slumber" is just poetic license. It is actually his "ongoing ability all game long"

Quote:
Next, his attack reads "Each investigator lowers either his maximum Sanity or Maximum Stamina by 1 (his choice)." If I were Harvey or Michael, I'd pick sanity and stamina, respectively, and use my special ability to receive no damage at all. Clearly this must be wrong. Are investigators' abilities ignored during final fights or just these kinds of abilities? It seems like they should have at least some effect in the final fight, perhaps delaying their damage to at least every other turn...

Thank you guys again in advance for your responses.

No, they prevent LOSS. What Cthulhu is going after is MAX values. So if Harvey is at max 7 sanity and currently at 6 sanity and were to suffer one sanity damage, he can ignore it. But when Big C hits him, his max goes down to 6 sanity while still remaining at 6 sanity. Then next round, down to 5 max. Even though C hasn't hit his current sanity of 6, Harvey can only have a maximum of 5 at this point. So he automatically lowers to 5 and his special ability can't help him.
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Jure Volarevic
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Cthulhu's ongoing effect IS efective at the start of battle.

You do not "lose" stamina or sanity in battle against Cthulhu, you only have your maximum sanity or stamina reduced. As per rules, you can't have more sanity/stamina than your maximum.
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David Chwala
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Thank you everyone. I knew I was misunderstanding something. blush

So that means even items like the Enchanted Jewelry are useless against Cthulhu. I like both those rules; anything that makes the game more difficult.
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David Williams
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
No, it remains. "Stirring in his slumber" is just poetic license. It is actually his "ongoing ability all game long"

I lost the last one of these I got involved in, but here I go again. I think "awakens" is the opposite of "slumbers." So the slumber rules would not apply. I can't find anywhere in the rules or FAQs where this is contradicted.

But I've been wrong before.
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brian
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The Old Man wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
No, it remains. "Stirring in his slumber" is just poetic license. It is actually his "ongoing ability all game long"


I lost the last one of these I got involved in, but here I go again. I think "awakens" is the opposite of "slumbers." So the slumber rules would not apply. I can't find anywhere in the rules or FAQs where this is contradicted.

But I've been wrong before.

Then tell me where the "slumber rules" are in the rules? They don't exist. It is a misnomer (which was why I referenced it as "poetic license") because most of them start with the phrase "While so and so slumbers..."

The actual feature name is "Power" and the rules say "This is a unique effect that the Ancient One has on gameplay. Most effects are active all game long." it is on page 19 of the rulebook. The Final Battle is part of the game play so the Power effect is present in the final battle.

And before you find a loophole and say "ah but it says most effects are active, how do I know" - Actually they are all active but since some of them modify monsters (mostly Cultists) or Mythos cards and monsters/Mythos cards aren't active at the Final Battle, these are the parts that are not applicable and therefore not tracked once the final battle starts.

Unfortunately, this is one of the casualties of the prolonged FAQ project. Not that the rules don't cover it but because of this very "logic" that when they awaken they can't possibly have a "slumber effect." But I can assure you the Power remains through out the Final battle (what thematic sense does it make that these guys would be less powerful awake?)
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Joe Field
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On a related note, how do you folks keep track of max sanity/stamina?
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Bern Harkins
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BanjoChutney wrote:
On a related note, how do you folks keep track of max sanity/stamina?


Generally just by memory. During the game, it's a rare and significant enough condition that it won't be forgotten. In final combat with Cthulhu, you know which round of combat it is, and therefore how much you should have lost.

In solo play, if there were no card associated with the reduction (such as an Injury or Madness) I'd jot a note on a scrap of paper and toss it on the Investigator sheet.
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Austin Fleming
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We generally use dice placed over the number on the character card.
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Joe Pilkus
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I simply return all but one Sanity and Stamina to the Investigator's Sheet making sure they're separated from the current Sanity, for instance should the Investigator cast a spell.

Mandy

Currenly at 2 Stamina and 3 Sanity

Next to thee tokens, I would place 2 Stamina and 1 Sanity (she starts with 5/5, thus reduced to 4/4 due to Cthulhu as GOO. If she casts a spell her current wuld lower by 1 to 2 Sanity but her Max. would drop by one after the first round to 3 [4 - 1]
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Joe Field
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Thanks - I think I'll go with dice, seeing as a have plenty.
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