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Subject: Purging Virus Counters rss

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Mike Stevens
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My buddy Jeff and I were playing a few games with some of the standard out of the box Factions that we had not used yet. I was the Corp playing Haas-Bioroid and he was the Runner playing Anarch. He got Medium and Data Sucker in play before he had any Icebreakers and he also put a Parasite on one of my rezzed Ice. He made several successful Runs against my R&D and Archives and the Virus Counters started piling up on Medium, Data Sucker, and his Parasite.

I then used all 3 Clicks on one turn to PURGE all the Virus Counters from his cards. He said that he did not think that I was able to take them off of all of his cards and certainly not Medium since the card text does not say that it is a Host or Virus Counters. We both read the rule book on Purges and then switched to page 22 to read over Hosting. We decided that I could take off all of his Virus Counters on Parasite and Data Sucker but not the ones on Medium. Did we play that correctly?

We know that Parasite goes in the trash as soon as it destroys the Ice it is attached to but what about Data Sucker? Once it is attached to a piece of Encountered Ice and does its damage, does it also get trashed?

This actually turned out to be a pretty crazy game as he ended up wth 4 Brain Damage thanks to playing those StimHacks early in the game and then fishing them out of the trash. It turned into a battle of attrition as he forced me to trash a card from the top of my R&D and it was a 3 point Agenda. My goofy self had NO Ice protecting my Archives and he used his last Click to snatch it and win the game. The majority of my Ice was in the bottom third of my deck. Even though it was a frustrating loss, it was still fun and we both learned about Medium. Neither of us had played it before. I also got to play 2 games as the Runner using the standard Anarch deck. While it has some punch I think I like my custom Shaper deck much better.
 
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Ken Grazier
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Since Medium reads:

CardGameDB wrote:
Whenever you make a successful run on R&D, place 1 virus counter on Medium.
Each virus counter after the first on Medium allows you to access 1 additional card from R&D whenever you access cards from R&D.


I'd say they are Virus tokens and therefore get removed.

edit: And Datasucker doens't attach to a specific piece of ICE, it's a program, so even if empty, the runner can keep it.
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Trevor Schadt
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Omahavice wrote:
I then used all 3 Clicks on one turn to PURGE all the Virus Counters from his cards. He said that he did not think that I was able to take them off of all of his cards and certainly not Medium since the card text does not say that it is a Host or Virus Counters. We both read the rule book on Purges and then switched to page 22 to read over Hosting. We decided that I could take off all of his Virus Counters on Parasite and Data Sucker but not the ones on Medium. Did we play that correctly?
The counters on Medium are absolutely Virus counters. It says so right on the card: "Whenever you make a successful run on R&D, place 1 virus counter on Medium. Each virus counter after the first on Medium allows you to access 1 additional card from R&D whenever you access cards from R&D." So when the Corp takes the Purge action, yes, the counters from Medium go away.

Out of curiosity, what argument was he using to say that you couldn't??

Omahavice wrote:
We know that Parasite goes in the trash as soon as it destroys the Ice it is attached to but what about Data Sucker? Once it is attached to a piece of Encountered Ice and does its damage, does it also get trashed?
Datasucker isn't hosted by a piece of ICE like Parasite; it's hosted on the Runner's rig. It is not trashed until either the Runner trashes it, or it falls prey to a piece of ICE that trashes programs.

Omahavice wrote:
It turned into a battle of attrition as he forced me to trash a card from the top of my R&D and it was a 3 point Agenda. My goofy self had NO Ice protecting my Archives and he used his last Click to snatch it and win the game.
You do know that when the Corp trashes a card that the Runner can't see (as is the case with Noise's special ability), the Runner does not get to see the card that gets trashed, right?

Omahavice wrote:
The majority of my Ice was in the bottom third of my deck
Alas, such is the problem with card-based games, especially games with individual decks: you can get hosed relatively easily by a bad shuffle. Fortunately, you can turn around and play again!
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Clyde W
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Kengi wrote:
Since Medium reads:

CardGameDB wrote:
Whenever you make a successful run on R&D, place 1 virus counter on Medium.
Each virus counter after the first on Medium allows you to access 1 additional card from R&D whenever you access cards from R&D.


I'd say they are Virus tokens and therefore get removed.

edit: And Datasucker doens't attach to a specific piece of ICE, it's a program, so even if empty, the runner can keep it.
Do you need to spend virus counters to do this though?

Last night we were debating about the virus that lowers strength of current ice by as many hosted virus counters (Datasucker) and we weren't sure if you needed to spend those counters to lower the strength.
 
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Trevor Schadt
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clydeiii wrote:
Last night we were debating about the virus that lowers strength of current ice by as many hosted virus counters (Datasucker) and we weren't sure if you needed to spend those counters to lower the strength.
Yes. The ability on Datasucker is listed as:
Quote:
Hosted virus counter: Rezzed piece of ice currently being encountered has -1 strength until the end of the encounter.
That notation indicates that you must pay a hosted virus counter each time you lower the strength of a piece of ICE.
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Mike Stevens
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Out of curiosity, what argument was he using to say that you couldn't?? wrote:


Omahavice wrote:
We know that Parasite goes in the trash as soon as it destroys the Ice it is attached to but what about Data Sucker? Once it is attached to a piece of Encountered Ice and does its damage, does it also get trashed?
Datasucker isn't hosted by a piece of ICE like Parasite; it's hosted on the Runner's rig. It is not trashed until either the Runner trashes it, or it falls prey to a piece of ICE that trashes programs.

Omahavice wrote:
It turned into a battle of attrition as he forced me to trash a card from the top of my R&D and it was a 3 point Agenda. My goofy self had NO Ice protecting my Archives and he used his last Click to snatch it and win the game.
You do know that when the Corp trashes a card that the Runner can't see (as is the case with Noise's special ability), the Runner does not get to see the card that gets trashed, right?

Omahavice wrote:
The majority of my Ice was in the bottom third of my deck
Alas, such is the problem with card-based games, especially games with individual decks: you can get hosed relatively easily by a bad shuffle. Fortunately, you can turn around and play again!


His argument was that since Medium was not a Host or Hosted card that the Virus Purge didn't affect it. I told him that the way iread it was that it affected ALL Virus Tokens on any of his cards. Of course we are both Type A hard headed nuts so he probably never even heard my side of the argument. Oh well we agreed to settle it on BGG. So thank you very much for the clarification.
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Trevor Schadt
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Omahavice wrote:
His argument was that since Medium was not a Host or Hosted card that the Virus Purge didn't affect it.
Ah. There's the problem. If you look in the glossary (p.31), it defines "Host" as (emphasis mine) "A card that is currently holding other cards or counters." Using that definition, Medium is absolutely a Host (as it is "currently holding counters") and therefore subject to the Purge action.

Omahavice wrote:
I told him that the way iread it was that it affected ALL Virus Tokens on any of his cards. Of course we are both Type A hard headed nuts so he probably never even heard my side of the argument. Oh well we agreed to settle it on BGG. So thank you very much for the clarification.
You were correct.
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B C Z
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The Corp can, for three clicks, purge Virus Counters.

Anything identified as a 'virus counter' is returned to the pool.

In the CORE set, that means all counters on the following cards:
Crypsis
Datasucker
Medium
Parasite

I am positive we'll see more cards that can have 'virus counters' hosted on them in future expansion packs.
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Sjoerd Dijkstra
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Omahavice wrote:
My buddy Jeff and I were playing a few games with some of the standard out of the box Factions that we had not used yet. I was the Corp playing Haas-Bioroid and he was the Runner playing Anarch. He got Medium and Data Sucker in play before he had any Icebreakers and he also put a Parasite on one of my rezzed Ice. He made several successful Runs against my R&D and Archives and the Virus Counters started piling up on Medium, Data Sucker, and his Parasite.

I then used all 3 Clicks on one turn to PURGE all the Virus Counters from his cards. He said that he did not think that I was able to take them off of all of his cards and certainly not Medium since the card text does not say that it is a Host or Virus Counters. We both read the rule book on Purges and then switched to page 22 to read over Hosting. We decided that I could take off all of his Virus Counters on Parasite and Data Sucker but not the ones on Medium. Did we play that correctly?

We know that Parasite goes in the trash as soon as it destroys the Ice it is attached to but what about Data Sucker? Once it is attached to a piece of Encountered Ice and does its damage, does it also get trashed?

This actually turned out to be a pretty crazy game as he ended up wth 4 Brain Damage thanks to playing those StimHacks early in the game and then fishing them out of the trash. It turned into a battle of attrition as he forced me to trash a card from the top of my R&D and it was a 3 point Agenda. My goofy self had NO Ice protecting my Archives and he used his last Click to snatch it and win the game. The majority of my Ice was in the bottom third of my deck. Even though it was a frustrating loss, it was still fun and we both learned about Medium. Neither of us had played it before. I also got to play 2 games as the Runner using the standard Anarch deck. While it has some punch I think I like my custom Shaper deck much better.
Cards trashed from R&D that are not accessed by the runner is discarded face down... From reading this little text here I thought I might point that out. :)
 
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Jacob Garr
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Shurdus wrote:
Omahavice wrote:
My buddy Jeff and I were playing a few games with some of the standard out of the box Factions that we had not used yet. I was the Corp playing Haas-Bioroid and he was the Runner playing Anarch. He got Medium and Data Sucker in play before he had any Icebreakers and he also put a Parasite on one of my rezzed Ice. He made several successful Runs against my R&D and Archives and the Virus Counters started piling up on Medium, Data Sucker, and his Parasite.

I then used all 3 Clicks on one turn to PURGE all the Virus Counters from his cards. He said that he did not think that I was able to take them off of all of his cards and certainly not Medium since the card text does not say that it is a Host or Virus Counters. We both read the rule book on Purges and then switched to page 22 to read over Hosting. We decided that I could take off all of his Virus Counters on Parasite and Data Sucker but not the ones on Medium. Did we play that correctly?

We know that Parasite goes in the trash as soon as it destroys the Ice it is attached to but what about Data Sucker? Once it is attached to a piece of Encountered Ice and does its damage, does it also get trashed?

This actually turned out to be a pretty crazy game as he ended up wth 4 Brain Damage thanks to playing those StimHacks early in the game and then fishing them out of the trash. It turned into a battle of attrition as he forced me to trash a card from the top of my R&D and it was a 3 point Agenda. My goofy self had NO Ice protecting my Archives and he used his last Click to snatch it and win the game. The majority of my Ice was in the bottom third of my deck. Even though it was a frustrating loss, it was still fun and we both learned about Medium. Neither of us had played it before. I also got to play 2 games as the Runner using the standard Anarch deck. While it has some punch I think I like my custom Shaper deck much better.
Cards trashed from R&D that are not accessed by the runner is discarded face down... From reading this little text here I thought I might point that out.


When he accesses the Archives though he gets to flip them all up and look through them for an agenda....
 
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Jacobgarr wrote:
Shurdus wrote:
Omahavice wrote:
My buddy Jeff and I were playing a few games with some of the standard out of the box Factions that we had not used yet. I was the Corp playing Haas-Bioroid and he was the Runner playing Anarch. He got Medium and Data Sucker in play before he had any Icebreakers and he also put a Parasite on one of my rezzed Ice. He made several successful Runs against my R&D and Archives and the Virus Counters started piling up on Medium, Data Sucker, and his Parasite.

I then used all 3 Clicks on one turn to PURGE all the Virus Counters from his cards. He said that he did not think that I was able to take them off of all of his cards and certainly not Medium since the card text does not say that it is a Host or Virus Counters. We both read the rule book on Purges and then switched to page 22 to read over Hosting. We decided that I could take off all of his Virus Counters on Parasite and Data Sucker but not the ones on Medium. Did we play that correctly?

We know that Parasite goes in the trash as soon as it destroys the Ice it is attached to but what about Data Sucker? Once it is attached to a piece of Encountered Ice and does its damage, does it also get trashed?

This actually turned out to be a pretty crazy game as he ended up wth 4 Brain Damage thanks to playing those StimHacks early in the game and then fishing them out of the trash. It turned into a battle of attrition as he forced me to trash a card from the top of my R&D and it was a 3 point Agenda. My goofy self had NO Ice protecting my Archives and he used his last Click to snatch it and win the game. The majority of my Ice was in the bottom third of my deck. Even though it was a frustrating loss, it was still fun and we both learned about Medium. Neither of us had played it before. I also got to play 2 games as the Runner using the standard Anarch deck. While it has some punch I think I like my custom Shaper deck much better.
Cards trashed from R&D that are not accessed by the runner is discarded face down... From reading this little text here I thought I might point that out.


When he accesses the Archives though he gets to flip them all up and look through them for an agenda....


Yes, but he doesn't know there's an agenda there, where in the game played, it was public information. If played right, the runner may skip it or go for it, only to find it's a non-agenda card, or even a trap.
 
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Unfortunately, I don't believe traps work very well in archives (either no counters or Snare! doesn't fire in archives)
 
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True. Still, it's better than saying "Here's 3 points and no ICE."
 
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Kengi wrote:
True. Still, it's better than saying "Here's 3 points and no ICE."


All part of the plan!
 
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Jythier wrote:
Unfortunately, I don't believe traps work very well in archives (either no counters or Snare! doesn't fire in archives)


Here's to hoping we'll see the rebirth of Stereogram Antibody.
 
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bhz1 wrote:
Jythier wrote:
Unfortunately, I don't believe traps work very well in archives (either no counters or Snare! doesn't fire in archives)


Here's to hoping we'll see the rebirth of Stereogram Antibody.


And here I thought archives, at least, were safe.
 
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bhz1 wrote:
Here's to hoping we'll see the rebirth of Stereogram Antibody.


Why does that card have the virus rules on it? It's a Corp card, after all.
 
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Azeltir wrote:
bhz1 wrote:
Here's to hoping we'll see the rebirth of Stereogram Antibody.


Why does that card have the virus rules on it? It's a Corp card, after all.


Probably whoever was entering in the cards did a mass-modify of database records to add that text to any card with a Virus keyword.
 
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Azeltir wrote:
bhz1 wrote:
Here's to hoping we'll see the rebirth of Stereogram Antibody.
Why does that card have the virus rules on it? It's a Corp card, after all.
My guess is, that's an artifact of whatever database is running the site; because it has "Virus" in its Card Type line, the Virus rule text is automatically added.
 
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Mike Stevens
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Kengi wrote:
True. Still, it's better than saying "Here's 3 points and no ICE."


In fairness to Juvi Jeff AKA
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he was ADAMENT that the Corp's TRASHED cards are played face up into the Archives pile and he played it that way in the 2 games that I won playing the Anarch deck last night. That made no sense to me but both times that he scored the Agenda that allows you to take the top 3 cards off the R&D and Install all of those cards that are Ice but TRASH any others, he trashed his non Ice cards Face Upshake

I will say this, ALL of our games are very spirited and the looks on our faces when one of us has to ADMIT that he was wrong is just priceless. Thank goodness for BGG
 
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Omahavice wrote:
Kengi wrote:
True. Still, it's better than saying "Here's 3 points and no ICE."


In fairness to Juvi Jeff AKA
Jeff Chubb
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he was ADAMENT that the Corp's TRASHED cards are played face up into the Archives pile and he played it that way in the 2 games that I won playing the Anarch deck last night. That made no sense to me but both times that he scored the Agenda that allows you to take the top 3 cards off the R&D and Install all of those cards that are Ice but TRASH any others, he trashed his non Ice cards Face Upshake

I will say this, ALL of our games are very spirited and the looks on our faces when one of us has to ADMIT that he was wrong is just priceless. Thank goodness for BGG


Glad you guys are having a good time!
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