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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » General

Subject: Why Do You Go Faster When You Bank? rss

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Ethan McKinney
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Why do you travel further when you bank than when you go straight?

I suppose part of the answer could be "the ships have higher speeds available when they move straight," so a 3-bank and a 4-straight are really the same speed maneuver.
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O B
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elbmc1969 wrote:

I suppose part of the answer could be "the ships have higher speeds available when they move straight," so a 3-bank and a 4-straight are really the same speed maneuver.

This.
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Andrew Martin
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Now that we got that out of the way can you tell me why in space everyone can hear TIE fighters scream?
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Ethan McKinney
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adorablerocket wrote:
elbmc1969 wrote:

I suppose part of the answer could be "the ships have higher speeds available when they move straight," so a 3-bank and a 4-straight are really the same speed maneuver.

This.

It's just a weird way of "phrasing" it, I guess you'd say. Why not have the speed 1 turns be in the 2 row, the speed 2 turns in the 3 row ...

E
 
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Guido Gloor
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I haven't measured them, but they seem to be somewhere between their own speed and one higher. So it's a matter of rounding either up or down, and FFG seems to have chosen rounding down
 
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Stephen Foulk
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Are they going downhill?
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Ken Newell
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They cut the corners and accelerate through the turns, of course.
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Ethan McKinney
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LFITQ wrote:
They cut the corners and accelerate through the turns, of course.


I'm not sure if that answer is purely sarcastic or semi-serious.
 
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Troy Hughes
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It's simple.

Because: Star Wars

 
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Ken Newell
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elbmc1969 wrote:
LFITQ wrote:
They cut the corners and accelerate through the turns, of course.


I'm not sure if that answer is purely sarcastic or semi-serious.


I wasn't sure either when I posted it.
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Kev.
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elbmc1969 wrote:
LFITQ wrote:
They cut the corners and accelerate through the turns, of course.


I'm not sure if that answer is purely sarcastic or semi-serious.

Do you like this game Ethan,
I'm thinking of getting it.
Guys here in Austin are digging it. Sold out at the local FLGS.

Banking in a aircraft you are working with Gravity.....not much of it in space.

But hey its all pretend right.
 
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Scott
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elbmc1969 wrote:
Why do you travel further when you bank than when you go straight?


Related to the triangle inequality.

By applying manoeuvring thrusters you end up with thrust at right angles to the direction of motion.

_x_
| /
y | / r
|/


If y is the velocity in the direction of initial motion, and x represents the added perpendicular velocity then you can see that the final velocity is necessarily greater than the initial so you travel further in a given time. Continual application of thrusters is what gives the curve shape.

Further, by banking into a curve the thrusters can supply centripetal acceleration enabling faster v for a given radius or smaller radius for a given v.
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Davey Jones
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blaecblaed wrote:
elbmc1969 wrote:
Why do you travel further when you bank than when you go straight?


Related to the triangle inequality.

By applying manoeuvring thrusters you end up with thrust at right angles to the direction of motion.

_x_
| /
y | / r
|/


If y is the velocity in the direction of initial motion, and x represents the added perpendicular velocity then you can see that the final velocity is necessarily greater than the initial so you travel further in a given time. Continual application of thrusters is what gives the curve shape.

Further, by banking into a curve the thrusters can supply centripetal acceleration enabling faster v for a given radius or smaller radius for a given v.


still, i imagine even in space you have to decelerate into a turn and accelerate out of it.
so then any speed gained will be lost cuz decelerating loses more time
then you gain accelerating cuz it lasts longer.

anyhoo, all of this is moot.
what limits the maneuverability is not the engines etc, but the maximum
g-forces the pilot can take before passing out.
thus a pilot can always withstand more speed while going straight then doing anything else.



 
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Robert M.
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vertigonius2 wrote:
still, i imagine even in space you have to decelerate into a turn and accelerate out of it.
so then any speed gained will be lost cuz decelerating loses more time
then you gain accelerating cuz it lasts longer.

anyhoo, all of this is moot.
what limits the maneuverability is not the engines etc, but the maximum
g-forces the pilot can take before passing out.
thus a pilot can always withstand more speed while going straight then doing anything else.

Nope on both counts. On Earth, we decelerate into turns and accelerate out of them in cars because if we don't, the centripetal force provided by our tires will be too low to hold us on a circular path, and we'll slip out of the turn. In aircraft, as I understand it, the limiting factor in a banked turn is the amount of aerodynamic stress the airframe can take.

In space, there's no friction and no aerodynamic stress. There are also no significant G-forces, because G is drastically reduced.
 
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Kelly Page
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blaecblaed wrote:

Further, by banking into a curve the thrusters can supply centripetal acceleration enabling faster v for a given radius or smaller radius for a given v.


Centripetal acceleration is a change in direction, not speed. Paths of constant radius (such as the turn maneuver) necessitate constant speed.

Sorry if I come off as trolling.
 
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Andrew Lieffring
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Vorpal Sword wrote:

In space... There are also no significant G-forces, because G is drastically reduced.


This isn't even remotely true. G-forces come from acceleration, of which the mutual gravitic attraction between massive objects is just one subset. Speeding up, slowing down, and turning are all forms of acceleration, and all generate g-forces.

If you're pulling a 10 g turn in a fighter jet, the 1 g coming from "down" doesn't matter all that much. Make the same turn in space and the net effect is going to be at most 10% higher or lower, depending on how the vectors were lined up on Earth. Since starfighters are often depicted as much faster and more nimble than jet fighters, the g-forces quickly get insane. Granted, the crew on a Star Destroyer aren't floating around, so we know Star Wars has some form of artificial gravity which might be useful in allowing pilots to pull 50G turns without instantly dying, but that's a different thing entirely from being able to ignore g-forces just because you're not in a gravity well.
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Scott
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DrRednek wrote:
blaecblaed wrote:

Further, by banking into a curve the thrusters can supply centripetal acceleration enabling faster v for a given radius or smaller radius for a given v.


Centripetal acceleration is a change in direction, not speed. Paths of constant radius (such as the turn maneuver) necessitate constant speed.

Sorry if I come off as trolling.


No, you don't come across as trolling. My whole post was written facetiously anyway so it wouldn't matter to me if you did.

However, I'm not sure what your post actually means as it's written in a way that it seems like you want to be contradicting me when that point you quote can't be contradicted. Since you know what cen. acc. is I'm sure that upon re-reading you will see that what I wrote is correct. Invoke a_c = v^2 / r where a_c is constant. That's all I wrote.

Pilots on earth will also bank into curves. The wing loading now having a tangential component towards the centre of the turn increases the cen. acc. enabling faster v for a given radius or smaller radius for a given v.
 
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Robert M.
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IncompleteUserNa wrote:
Vorpal Sword wrote:

In space... There are also no significant G-forces, because G is drastically reduced.


This isn't even remotely true. G-forces come from acceleration, of which the mutual gravitic attraction between massive objects is just one subset. Speeding up, slowing down, and turning are all forms of acceleration, and all generate g-forces.

If you're pulling a 10 g turn in a fighter jet, the 1 g coming from "down" doesn't matter all that much. Make the same turn in space and the net effect is going to be at most 10% higher or lower, depending on how the vectors were lined up on Earth. Since starfighters are often depicted as much faster and more nimble than jet fighters, the g-forces quickly get insane. Granted, the crew on a Star Destroyer aren't floating around, so we know Star Wars has some form of artificial gravity which might be useful in allowing pilots to pull 50G turns without instantly dying, but that's a different thing entirely from being able to ignore g-forces just because you're not in a gravity well.

I wasn't very clear, but when I said "G is drastically reduced" I meant that fighters in Star Wars do indeed feature a hand-wavey sci-fi device ("acceleration compensators") whose sole purpose is to keep pilots conscious and alive during high-speed maneuvering. Presumably it does this using the same mechanism that generates artificial gravity on larger starships, although it's never explained.

It's also a convenient explanation for why fighters function the same way in an asteroid field or deep space as they do in the immediate vicinity of a gas giant and a moon-sized (and presumably moon-massed) space station.
 
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Kelly Page
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blaecblaed wrote:
I'm sure that upon re-reading you will see that what I wrote is correct. Invoke a_c = v^2 / r where a_c is constant. That's all I wrote.


You are correct. I had incorrectly read your post. blush
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