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Subject: Keepings one's word vs an AutoWin. Would I be a dirtbag? rss

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Bob Miller
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T3 as HRE player. I made a deal in Diplomacy to play my HC and give the Ottomans War in Persia (a 5 pointer) for him to spend 1 point to DoW Venice (where I had a 100% chance of winning the check) and to walk away from Buda. I stated in Diplo I would not press further against the Ottoman, thus not press for Belgrade.

Belgrade is the AutoWin for me and I may have the cards now to do it as St Johns nabbed me a 5 point card (Treachery if it can be believed) from the Ottoman hand.

Would I be a dirtbag if I went for the win? Are deals off the table if the game could be won or am I just rationalizing and really would be a dirtbag?

This group I am gaming with is fun and fast. We are already talking about the nest game. I would hate to be labeled a two bit snake just after our first game.

Advice? Comments?

ps - Going for the military victory (4 more keys) is a heck of a lot easier than doing the VP route as the HRE.
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Steve Bishop
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Lytham St. Annes
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Don't know why you are asking this.

Just win the damn game, presumably that's why you took part?
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Greg Forster
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"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning" - Dr. Reiner Knizia
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As has been discussed in these fora many times and at great length, despite what some would like to believe, there is (for all practical purposes) no standard for answering this question other than what the players in your group find consistent with their enjoyment of the game. Some players enjoy the game more in a high trust environment for a variety of reasons, while some enjoy the added layer of uncertainty betrayals add to the game. Judging from the discussion in our group so far (including from myself) most of us generally seem to prefer a high level of trust but not so high that we'd hold this move against you.
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Chris Montgomery
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Joliet
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I agree with Greg. But for me personally . . .

Go for the win. That's why there's no rules against breaking your word in this game. Especially a PBEM game.

Then again, I am a player that likes the added tension of not knowing if my opponents will carry through on their promises. But if I see a reasonable chance to win the game, I take it, regardless of pre-turn promises. Why else have you worked so hard to cultivate that trust between yourself and the Ottoman?

When I'm the guy who gets stabbed, it just feels awful, but you have to remind yourself of three things: (1) oops - lesson learned - I can get stabbed in this game!, (2) if the guy (who's stabbing you) wins, it's a great narrative of Machiavellian proportions that will make a great story to tell your other gamer buddies, and (3) it's just a damn game, so have fun with it and get over it. yuk

Cheers. Have fun, whatever you decide!
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Tylor Hobbs
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Speaking as the aforementioned Ottoman player, go for it. It's especially fitting when done via a Treachery card I was holding onto in order to sneak Venice away from you.
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Chris Montgomery
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Joliet
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Ecclectic Moose wrote:
Speaking as the aforementioned Ottoman player, go for it. It's especially fitting when done via a Treachery card I was holding onto in order to sneak Venice away from you.


I was going to mention that his opponent might be reading BGG . . . and what do you know!
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Bob Miller
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cmontgo2 wrote:
Ecclectic Moose wrote:
Speaking as the aforementioned Ottoman player, go for it. It's especially fitting when done via a Treachery card I was holding onto in order to sneak Venice away from you.


I was going to mention that his opponent might be reading BGG . . . and what do you know!


The military AutoWin option is not a secret. Never was. McKenzie is in the game too and he is a regular Howard Cosell with his play by play commentary. I like it.

Thanks for the input guys.

Belgrade of Bust. Schwendi has that bumper sticker on his horse's butt as he rides south along the Danube.
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Russ Hewson
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It's about the only time I would break my word (unless I've made a deal that specifically mentioned the auto win and not going for it, or not going for it in a particular way), as I like to play in a high trust environment and as Greg mentioned, very few people would hold that against you (especially as there's no value in being 2nd over 4th etc).
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Tylor Hobbs
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While the breaking of words was dealt with in the negotiations, it was more in the trying to make sure it wouldn't happen variety. Unfortunately, predictions for how the turn would go were... wrong. Up to and including the 7 vs. 2 assassination attempt where the 2 won handily.
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Angel Marina Haya
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Hi!

If you can win, it's normal than you should try it. I think people that play wargames must know that games are that, a GAME.

The main problem, are people that make agreements that put hight risk for can win. The agreements should be looked in a play that goes to be long or by the way that it gives you chance to can try win later, but all people can understand that people wants try win if they can...
 
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Sean McKenzie
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I waqs expecting I would be trying to stave off the HRE auto win going into T3. Mentioned it to Spanish that I expected I would be playing ruler falls ill to prevent HRE from taking Belgrade.

Ottoman's gave you a gift when they both declared war on venice so you would get it, and ceded Buda. The french giving you metz for marriages should have been foreseen.

Neither SP nor Prots have done espionage versus you, other wise we could probably have stopped you.

We can still stop you.

The odds of Ott's winning the field battle, with a draw a win, is close to 50/50, and prots/sp can still do espionage. I expect prots won't. Spain may be. I can't do esp and play my card. If we had tried the overwhelming expectation is we would stop you. And I expect we could stop you next turn if we work on it.

But I doubt people will try.

Generally speaking I don't expect someone not to drop a para on my capital when doing so will win the game.
 
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RJ
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(Protestant player here.) The Germans easily won the field battle. The writing seems to be all but on the wall now.

Three keys were ceded to the Germans through deals, leaving him one key away from an auto-victory. In a game that promotes ganging up on a leader, I think it only makes sense to go for a win when you have the opportunity, deal or no deal.
 
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