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Subject: Paratroopers in Fortress Europa rss

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Stephen Bloom
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Would someone please clarify the use of paras in relation to invasions.

Question: May paratroopers be dropped on top of Allied invading infantry units in an eligible, German occupied, invasion hex and take part in their invasion combat?

Question: May paratroopers be dropped beside a German occupied invasion eligible hex and take part in the same combat as the Allied infantry units assaulting from within the German occupied hex?

If yes to the former question, then when do normal stacking rules commence?
 
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Steve Carter
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Bannockburn wrote:
Would someone please clarify the use of paras in relation to invasions.

I am not an expert in this game, but will attempt to answer your questions.
Bannockburn wrote:

Question: May paratroopers be dropped on top of Allied invading infantry units in an eligible, German occupied, invasion hex and take part in their invasion combat?

I think so. Rule 20.8 states:

20.8 Paratroopers can even drop on top of enemy units, but must fight those enemy units. In this case, however, they do not, and cannot, fight any units in adjacent hexes. If enemy units in the drop hex are not eliminated or retreated, the paratroopers are eliminated instead; they may not retreat. They can combine to attack with invading units.

So based on the last sentence, I think the answer to your question is yes.

Bannockburn wrote:

Question: May paratroopers be dropped beside a German occupied invasion eligible hex and take part in the same combat as the Allied infantry units assaulting from within the German occupied hex?


This should also be yes, assuming that there are no other enemy units adjacent to the paratroopers. Rule 20.7 states that paratroopers need to attack all adjacent units. So they may need to divert their attack to deal with enemy units other than the invasion hex.

20.7 Paratroopers must be dropped during the first impu1lse and cannot move that impulse except as a result of combat. They can move on the second impulse. They must attack all adjacent units whose ZOC they are in, in both impulses. They can combine to attack with invading units.

Again, the key sentence here is the last one. If the paratroops are adjacent to an invasion hex, and do not need to attack any other hexes, they may combine to attack with invading units.

Bannockburn wrote:

If yes to the former question, then when do normal stacking rules commence?


Stacking rules are in place at the end of the movement phase. So if the airborne units drop on a German unit in an invaded beach hex, they would count towards the stacking limit of the beach hex.
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Patrick Bauer
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tallracer333 wrote:
Stacking rules are in place at the end of the movement phase. So if the airborne units drop on a German unit in an invaded beach hex, they would count towards the stacking limit of the beach hex.


To be clear, the stacking limit includes only the friendly units in the hex not any enemy ones.
 
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Stephen Bloom
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Thank you for your response. I raised it after reading some old General articles that discuss using paras to provide more factors to an invasion hex assault. If stacking comes into affect at the end of the movement phase, then I suppose that, given the two unit limit in an invasion hex, if you used a para you would only have been able to use one ground unit in the hex?
 
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Steve Carter
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Bannockburn wrote:
Thank you for your response. I raised it after reading some old General articles that discuss using paras to provide more factors to an invasion hex assault. If stacking comes into affect at the end of the movement phase, then I suppose that, given the two unit limit in an invasion hex, if you used a para you would only have been able to use one ground unit in the hex?

I believe so. Unlike other AH games, paratroops in Fortress Europa count as one unit for stacking purposes.
 
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Stephen Bloom
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Thanks.
 
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Jim Eliason
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There was a detailed discussion of a similar issue on ConSimWorld a few weeks ago. The consensus was that paratroops do not necessarily need to attack all adjacent units, but all enemy units next to friendly paratroops need to be attacked. I.e. some enemy units adjacent to paratroops can be attacked by non-paradropped units, which relieves the paras of the need to attack those units.

My take on stacking/combining with invasions would be yes, that paratroops can attack normally in conjunction with invasions. But if dropped in an invasion hex I'd think that the stacking limit would be the normal one: 3 for clear, 2 for rough. Stacking for invading units is a limitation on landing craft and shallow frontage, and adding paratroops removes these limits. So I'd say invading a clear hex you could have two invading units and also one paradropping one.
 
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Stu Carson
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jeliason wrote:
My take on stacking/combining with invasions would be yes, that paratroops can attack normally in conjunction with invasions. But if dropped in an invasion hex I'd think that the stacking limit would be the normal one: 3 for clear, 2 for rough. Stacking for invading units is a limitation on landing craft and shallow frontage, and adding paratroops removes these limits. So I'd say invading a clear hex you could have two invading units and also one paradropping one.


Jim,

I think you have this one wrong. Rule 20.14 (2nd ed) says;

"Paratrooper may not be airdropped onto hexes that contain other invading units during an invasion turn....and must conform to the two high stack limit"

Stu
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Steve Carter
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Evil Stu wrote:
Rule 20.14 (2nd ed) says;

"Paratrooper may not be airdropped onto hexes that contain other invading units during an invasion turn....and must conform to the two high stack limit"

Stu

Good catch, Stu. I guess I didn't read far enough down the rule book.
So the reference to paratroopers joining in an attack of an invasion hex refers only to situations where the paratroops are dropped adjacent to an invasion hex.
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Ron Glass
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I don't think so. The 2 unit stacking restriction is for the invasion hex, not the invaded beach hex. The 2 units from the invasion hex could take the beach hex if successful, and a single para could be added to meet a 3 unit stack, if its a clear hex (plus rangers/commandos if with the invasion as they have no stacking). Rough would be worse as its only a 2 unit limit, meaning only 1 invasion unit, + 1 para. Mtn hexes at 1 unit stacking the worst, so no paras available to be added.

We play it that the invasion hex is the adjacent sea hex, not the beach hex you are fighting for.

Ron
 
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Steve Carter
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ronglass wrote:
I don't think so. The 2 unit stacking restriction is for the invasion hex, not the invaded beach hex...
...We play it that the invasion hex is the adjacent sea hex, not the beach hex you are fighting for.

That might be a "house rule" for you, but I don't think there is anything in the rules mentioning a distinction between an "invasion hex" and an "invaded beach hex." In fact, the rules state that movement ENDS on the land hex. Since combat cannot begin until movement ends, it seems to me that the units cannot "stop" on the sea hex prior to combat. They stop on the beach hex and thus are subject to the stacking restrictions for invading units on the first impulse.
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Ron Glass
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Interesting point. This might be a holdover from the much older version that simply never got addressed when going to the AH version. Or it's an issue from when I was taught the game that wasn't taught right. Thanks for pointing that out.
Ron
 
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Hava Goodday
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20.14 Paratrooper units can function as normal infantry units. Paratroopers landing adj1acent to invading units during an invasion must be specified as invading units or airdropped units. If they are airdropped units, this would count as one of the five allied airdrops. Paratrooper may not be airdropped onto hexes that contain other invading units during an invasion turn. Paratrooper stacked with invading units during the first impulse of an invasion turn are considered to be functioning as normal infantry units; and must conform to the two high stacking limit during invasions turns.

So.. paras that are airdropped dont count against the two high stacking limit, but it them also says they cant be dropped onto hexes that contain other invading units. This is completely silly, as per 101 and 82 at d-day which bascially dropped on the hex where the 4th div landed.

My take is you should be able to drop them into the same hex as invading units, but at the end of impulse 1, you must not have more than 3 units.

 
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