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Subject: Time for a homosexual thread! rss

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Mainly because RSP is starting to become like it was during the rabid-frothing-at-mouth stage of Bush's last 18 months. The vile and relentless hatred got to the point where any post favoring any single thing Bush did, like maybe smiling, was shredded to pieces, fisked endlessly, broken down into data-bytes and then reposted with 15 links proving his smile was faked.

Sort of like RSP has now become in it's zombie-like hatred of everything Romney.

So let's talk about something less controversial, like homosexuals. I read an article today that says Gov. Moonbeam out in California cheerfully signed a law banning some sort of therapy to help minors not be gay. Uh, okay. Is this really the job of our government? Yes, I understand that activist gay people tend to be endlessly offended by anything that doesn't fit into their personal demands for recognition of long-suffering, or whatever other crown of thorns they decide to don on a daily basis. But reading the article all I see if that the guy who originally designed the therapy has denounced it.

Okay. So what? Isn't there a line where the state ought not to be allowed to intervene into what a parent decides? It's not as if a parent sending a gay kid to a therapist is any better or worse than a different parent smoking dope with the kids or taking them to an anti-Christian or anti-Muslim or anti-black or anti-anything rally or indoctrinating them into the LDS church or into communism or really, into pretty much anything. The idea that gay reversion therapy is somehow so much more damaging to a teen than any of hundreds of things parents do (or fail to do) to fuck up their kids lives is ridiculous.

Let's say a kid turns 14, realizes he hates the idea of God and doesn't like his parent's Muslim faith. If he refuses to go and they then get the local Imam and other religious leaders and do an intervention brow-beating him into attending the mosque and denouncing the heathens, is that somehow less damaging than sending your gay or lesbian teen to therapy to "cure" them?

The point isn't that being gay may or may not be a condition that is subject to change. It's that the state has now made a law targeting a specific therapy and, ultimately, specific parents and their rights. Why just gay therapy? Isn't that just the tip of the iceberg? There are dozens of therapies that could be considered a violation of the minor's rights, starting with after school detention because of acting up in class. Who's to say that "acting up" isn't a natural state of being? Pretty much everyone agrees that George Carlin acted up in class, and look at his success.

This isn't about gays, in my mind, it's about how much control a state ought to be allowed to have over our lives. And, in this case, how much control special interest groups ought to have, via the state, to control the lives of people who aren't part of their "class of people".
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William Boykin
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DWTripp wrote:
So let's talk about something less controversial, like homosexuals.


Wait. What?

This is going to go well.

Darilian
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Boaty McBoatface
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I don't think that banning parents from sending kids to de-gaying camps is the only thing parents are banned from doing, and yes it may cause lasting emotional damage to the child. Of course I may be wrong about America and may you have no child protection laws. Or are you saying that there should be no child protection laws?

By the way detention is not a therapy it’s a punishment. If I take what you are saying seriously are you saying that de-gaying camps are there to punish Homosexual tendencies?
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Damian
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DWTripp wrote:
Is this really the job of our government?

Licensing and regulating the practice of medicine? Yes.

Quote:
Okay. So what? Isn't there a line where the state ought not to be allowed to intervene into what a parent decides?

Yes. The state is not intervening in any parental decisions here.

Quote:
The idea that gay reversion therapy is somehow so much more damaging to a teen than any of hundreds of things parents do (or fail to do) to fuck up their kids lives is ridiculous.

Yes, but the state can regulate the practice of medicine. It can't do much about regulating the practice of religion.

Quote:
The point isn't that being gay may or may not be a condition that is subject to change. It's that the state has now made a law targeting a specific therapy and, ultimately, specific parents and their rights.

The state has passed laws banning specific types of therapy for years. Why does this one have you up in arms?
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slatersteven wrote:
I don't think that banning parents from sending kids to de-gaying camps is the only thing parents are banned from doing, and yes it may cause lasting emotional damage to the child. Of course I may be wrong about America and may you have no child protection laws. Or are you saying that there should be no child protection laws?

By the way detention is not a therapy it’s a punishment. If I take what you are saying seriously are you saying that de-gaying are there to punish Homosexual tendencies?


Speak to the OP Slater. Here, I'll go slow, especially for you:

Do

You

Think

The State

Should

Have

This

Degree

Of

Control

In

Our

Private

Lives?


I even bigified the letters for you.
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I wish I could leave my bones and my skin and float over the tired, tired sea, so that I could see you again
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If this thread is going to have gay sex with other threads, I hope it's female!
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Boaty McBoatface
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DWTripp wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
I don't think that banning parents from sending kids to de-gaying camps is the only thing parents are banned from doing, and yes it may cause lasting emotional damage to the child. Of course I may be wrong about America and may you have no child protection laws. Or are you saying that there should be no child protection laws?

By the way detention is not a therapy it’s a punishment. If I take what you are saying seriously are you saying that de-gaying are there to punish Homosexual tendencies?


Speak to the OP Slater. Here, I'll go slow, especially for you:

Do

You

Think

The State

Should

Have

This

Degree

Of

Control

In

Our

Private

Lives?


I even bigified the letters for you.


I did, I implied that yes the state should pass laws that protect children (you asked should the state have that power), and that your use of detention as a therapy is facile. How is that not addressing the OP? I realise that yet again this is just another ill thought out rant in your part, but do not try and pretend I have ignored what you said. If you say something fucking stupid I will call it fucking stupid.

But to make it easier for you to understand (I realise that comprehension is not your string point). The state has a duty of care to those who cannot protect themselves (do you disagree with this?), this includes children (do you disagree with this?). Therapy of this kind can cause lasting emotional a philological damage to children (I realise that you as an expert disagree with this), thus yes it should be banned unless there is a clear clinical (not moral or religious) need for this treatment.
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damiangerous wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
Is this really the job of our government?

Licensing and regulating the practice of medicine? Yes.

Quote:
Okay. So what? Isn't there a line where the state ought not to be allowed to intervene into what a parent decides?

Yes. The state is not intervening in any parental decisions here.

Quote:
The idea that gay reversion therapy is somehow so much more damaging to a teen than any of hundreds of things parents do (or fail to do) to fuck up their kids lives is ridiculous.

Yes, but the state can regulate the practice of medicine. It can't do much about regulating the practice of religion.

Quote:
The point isn't that being gay may or may not be a condition that is subject to change. It's that the state has now made a law targeting a specific therapy and, ultimately, specific parents and their rights.

The state has passed laws banning specific types of therapy for years. Why does this one have you up in arms?


Huh?

Of course the state is intervening. What you have is testimony and you have advocacy. Even the article uses the word "may" in reference to some sort of emotional damage.

I thought my question was clear. It seems to me that the more things we allow the state to decide for us, the more things the state will decide and will demand to be the decision maker on.

Are you fine with that?
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Jon Badolato
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Conversion therapy probably should be banned for use by licensed health care workers, psychologists, psychiatrists, etc ... The government has every right to protect minors from treatments that have not been shown to be efficacious in any way and in fact are more likely to cause psychological damage than repair.
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slatersteven wrote:
If you say something fucking stupid I will call it fucking stupid.


Says the guy who can't fucking spell.
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William Boykin
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DWTripp wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
If you say something fucking stupid I will call it fucking stupid.


Says the guy who can't fucking spell.


Fuckers.

Darilian
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Boaty McBoatface
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DWTripp wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
If you say something fucking stupid I will call it fucking stupid.


Says the guy who can't fucking spell.


Please do point out my spelling errors here?
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It scares me when states get into the science business because we have seen overwhelmingly that politicians are supreme dumasses when it comes to science and medicine, or at least GOP politicians are.

I think California should wait until the state medical board bans the procedure, and *then* pass a law against it so that the ignorameous parents can't take their kids to unlicenced quacks for brainwashing.

They needs to let the people trained in science and math take the lead, else why have medical boards in the first place.
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Thumb for subject line. In fact, if BGG offered them, I'd give it a full reach-around.
 
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DWTripp wrote:
Of course the state is intervening.

I didn't say they weren't intervening. I said they weren't intervening in parental decisions, which is true. I said they were regulating a medical procedure that has been deemed harmful, which is basically what we expect a government to do.

Quote:
I thought my question was clear. It seems to me that the more things we allow the state to decide for us, the more things the state will decide and will demand to be the decision maker on.

Sure. But regulating the practice of medicine is not typically one of those things.
Quote:
Are you fine with that?

Yes. Are you fine with the state not regulating the practice of medicine? I mean, can I just call myself a doctor and start cutting people open and passing out pills? If your answer to that is no, then you also agree that there are things the state needs to "decide things for us" and the only difference is where we draw the line.
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Donald
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Enough control to ban an unsafe/useless/junk practice? Yes.

Quote:
It got support from the California Psychological Association and the California Board of Behavioral Sciences, among others.

(The bill's sponsor, state Senator Ted)Lieu said the psychiatrist who pioneered the therapy, Dr. Robert Spitzer, has since renounced it and has apologized to the gay and lesbian community.

All major medical and mental health organizations including the American Medical Association and the American Psychiatric Association have denounced the practice, supporters said.



This seems similar to not taking your child to a doctor when he is sick and taking him a faith healer or similar to me. What's the law on that?


.

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chaendlmaier wrote:
Admit it, Tripp, this was just a shot in the dark.

Like the free colonoscopy Biden is promising you.

Yeah but you have to pay extra for the reach around. That's where they get you.
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jmilum wrote:
It scares me when states get into the science business because we have seen overwhelmingly that politicians are supreme dumasses when it comes to science and medicine, or at least GOP politicians are.

I think California should wait until the state medical board bans the procedure, and *then* pass a law against it so that the ignorameous parents can't take their kids to unlicenced quacks for brainwashing.

They needs to let the people trained in science and math take the lead, else why have medical boards in the first place.


You are actually worse than I ever was when it comes to being a partisan ideologue. If there is one state in the Union where GOP legislators are the distinct minority, it's California. So your anti-GOP stance is curious here. In short, you're a partisan hack here in RSP.

That aside, I agree with you. I also believe that this doesn't fall under the strict definition of "medicine", like for example, in banning actual drug or surgical procedures that can cause death, impairment or other long-term negative effects. This is "therapy". Like psychology or psychiatry, not "medicine".

My personal feelings are that some kids are gay, others aren't. Some kids experiment with gay sex and others don't. I do believe the parents have some rights in how their kids are expected to live their lives until they are adults and for the state to step in and specifically ban a non-surgical, non-pharma therapy based on little more than angry ex-kids who are gay is a bad thing and that it might portend an ever more restrictive future for residents of California in their rights to decide what their children can and cannot do.

I don't see a whole lot of difference between an intervention therapy to revert kids back to hetero ( a dumb idea ) and any sort of social brainwashing. How is this any different than what I mentioned regarding religion? Or even politics?
 
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Donald wrote:
This seems similar to not taking your child to a doctor when he is sick and taking him a faith healer or similar to me. What's the law on that?

I don't think it has been decided Federally, but generally at the state level parents are given a vast amount of leeway, they are not even consistently prosecuted if the child dies.
 
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slatersteven wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
If you say something fucking stupid I will call it fucking stupid.


Says the guy who can't fucking spell.


Please do point out my spelling errors here?


Dude, don't go there. You sound like a mass murderer who wants to be forgiven because "I haven't killed anybody today, yet."
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Unless it crosses the line to what society considers abuse, parents should be free to raise their parents any way they want.

I think sending a kid to anti-gay brainwashing is a bit stepford wife ish but it's not abuse.

Co worker did this with his daughter who was falling into hard drug use. Basically imprisoned her at a private school for 2 years of constant brainwashing.

Now she's 22 and doing well instead of dead from drugs. I dislike what he did but I also understand she'd probably be dead or worse than dead without what he did.


---

I think some kids are gay, some kids are straight and a hell of a lot of kids are bisexual to one degree or another and can be swayed by social conditioning into suppressing their sexuality or feeling more comfortable living with just the straight part of it.
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DWTripp wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
If you say something fucking stupid I will call it fucking stupid.


Says the guy who can't fucking spell.


Please do point out my spelling errors here?


Dude, don't go there. You sound like a mass murderer who wants to be forgiven because "I haven't killed anybody today, yet."


Don't talk bollocks, what in effect you are saying is there is not point in ever stopping doing something wrong because you will always be regarded as guilty even if you have not done it again. Should we judge you based on what you have done in they past, but now no longer do?
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Billythehut wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
This isn't about gays, in my mind

BS, you featured the word homosexual in the title of your thread, not anything about government over reach.


Whatever you may think, it got you here, eh?
 
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DWTripp wrote:
...It's that the state has now made a law targeting a specific therapy and, ultimately, specific parents and their rights. Why just gay therapy? Isn't that just the tip of the iceberg? There are dozens of therapies that could be considered a violation of the minor's rights, starting with after school detention because of acting up in class. Who's to say that "acting up" isn't a natural state of being?...


Well, if we don't ban it, isn't that just the tip of the iceberg? What if not banning murder becomes considered a violation of individual liberty, and then people were allowed to murder random people for no reason?



THIS IS A VERY PLAUSIBLE SLIPPERY SLOPE ARGUMENT, GUYS. YOU HAVE TO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.
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Boaty McBoatface
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DWTripp wrote:
Billythehut wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
This isn't about gays, in my mind

BS, you featured the word homosexual in the title of your thread, not anything about government over reach.


Whatever you may think, it got you here, eh?


So you were just being controversial for the sake of the attention, get over yourself.
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