Norbert Chan
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On the occasion of Fallcon's 25 th anniversary, Don organized a 6 player game of Eclipse on Saturday evening.

Rob was going first, so to his right, I chose the Hydrans, Ken chose Mechanema, Don chose Draco, Jean chose Orion, Gary chose Planta, and Rob decided to be Terran.

Rob decided to research the gauss shields, which allowed Gary as Planta to explore Rob's level 1 tile. I also explored, and did a research. By turn 2, I was able to acquire an advanced robotics. Jean built a cruiser on turn 1, and using a +6 material discovery tile was able to build a dreadnought on turn 3, and Jean moved to attack some double ancients. Due to poor dice rolling, Jean had to retreat. (None of us wanted to roll for the ancients for fear of retribution by Jean)

On turn 3, Jean attacked again, and was succesful. I had spent a turn exploring an adjacent tile beside Rob and I, which contained double ancients; Rob had built up a cruiser and 2 interceptors, and was able to get there before I was on turn 4. Also on turn 4, Jean had conquered the galactic core.

It is until turn 5 that I build 3 cruisers. Jean decides to attack Rob, and Rob responds by moving his entire fleet away from my front to deal with Jean, and Rob loses most of his fleet. But Jean has to take away 3 or 4 influence tokens during the upkeep phase, including the influence token on the galactic core. Going first in turn 6, I am really tempted to influence the galactic core, but I know that Jean would be upset, and I wasn't quite ready to deal with a couple of dreadnoughts, so I attack Rob, who has built a monolith in a 1 VP area, the tile where I had explored on turn 1 and found the double ancients. I take it over fairly easily. Gary decided to influence a couple of the planets that Jean had to abandon, and Jean attacked to get the core back.

Gary as Planta has not really been kept in check; he has 10 planets or so under his domain, which is too many for Planta. However, everyone else was looking at Gary and myself as being threats in this game, since I was going to fill all my research tile tracks for 15 VPs. I was hoping someone would at least attack Gary's planets, but in this game, Gary kept all his explored planets.

I was kicking myself for being too passive. On turn 7, Don negotiates with Jean to send in a couple of dreadnoughts to attack my area. Don has identified that I was the threat. By now, my starbases are armed with antimatter cannon (1 hit on a red dice does 4 damage), so all I did was plunk down a couple of starbases to deal with each dreadnought. I destroy one dreadnought, while Don is victorious in the other area, but since Don does not have neutron bombs, I am safe. Don decides to evacuate on turn 8 since I can take out dreadnoughts fairly easily.

On turn 8 I purchase the wormhole generator. Rob thought he had built a safe monolith away from me. On turn 9, I make my move. I send in 1 cruiser to Rob's other monolith area after he has passed. I influence one of Don's former planets which draws in his last dreadnought. I then build a couple starbases and an interceptor; with the interceptor I go after one of Don's 3 VP planets after Don has passed (and has no material to build anyways). My only mistake in this turn was not to get the artifact key earlier so I could 5 more material to get another interceptor and potentially get more VPs. I thought no one else would grab the artifact key, but I was mistaken. On the last turn, I draw a 4 VP token for destroying a dreadnought to replace a 2 VP token, I get Rob's 4 VP planent (1 VP + monolith) and take over Don's 3 VP planet.

Scores:
Norbert 45 (8 reputation, 16 planets, 15 research, 6 monolith),
Gary 44 (9 reputation, 6 VPs, 14 planets, 5 research, 10 Planta bonus), Ken 40 (6 reputation, 4 VPs, 11 plants, 4 research, 15 monoliths),
Rob 28 (13 reputation, 2 VPs, 5 planet, 5 reseearch, 3 monolith)
Jean 25 (11 reputation, 6 VPs, 9 planets, 1 research, -2 traitor),
Don 21 (10 reputaiton, 6 planets, 5 research).

So I was pretty lucky in the last round to have so many targets of opportunity. Gary wasn't pressured too much as Planta, and if it wasn't for a series of fourtuante events, I would have finished second. Ken remarked to me he was surprised he had 40 pts, but he did have 5 monoliths.

I'm not sure our group is going to try a 6 player game anytime soon. It always seems a couple of palyers are out early, and it is quite a torture for them to play the next couple of hours without hope.


I am the Hydrans (green). Rob (red) is the Terrans. Gary (yellow) is Planta. Jean (blue) is Orion. Ken (black) is Mechenama. Don (white) is Draco. Both Gary and I have 10 planets under control.

Edited to correct Rob's score.


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Jim Richardson

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I highly recommend 2 or 3 player games until the players are reasonably experienced. Until then, 5 or 6 player (sometimes even 4 player) is really a chore, not just due to slower play speed but also mistakes which will be made, messing up game balance for everyone.
 
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Stephen
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Shouldn't Rob have three points for monoliths? He has one in his home sector.
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Mark Bausman
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In turn one you said "which allowed Gary as Planta to explore Rob's level 1 tile". How can that happen? Planta is able to explore 2 sectors but he can not do 2 explore actions. I don't see how Planta could reach the level 1 tile of Rob.
 
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Trevor Schadt
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mbausman wrote:
In turn one you said "which allowed Gary as Planta to explore Rob's level 1 tile". How can that happen? Planta is able to explore 2 sectors but he can not do 2 explore actions. I don't see how Planta could reach the level 1 tile of Rob.
When the Planta explore, they complete the 1st Exploration, then proceed on to the second. The Planta could explore "their" I-ring tile with the first explore, then (assuming that they Influence that system) move on to "Rob's" I-ring with the second.
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Norbert Chan
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StephenV wrote:
Shouldn't Rob have three points for monoliths? He has one in his home sector.


Yes, you are correct. Rob should have 3 more points. I missed that in copying over the notes. Thanks for spotting that.
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Mark Bausman
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I put this up as a new topic. Perhaps I misinterpreted the rules. Planta does not get 2 explore actions they get to explore two tiles. As such they could not explore from their tier 1 tile.
 
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James Motz
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This was answered in your other post - but for clarity's sake Planta can indeed explore two Tier 1 tiles in their first Exploration phase (first one, place the disk there, and then the next). See the FAQ for more info.
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Rob Doupe
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ParticleMan wrote:
I highly recommend 2 or 3 player games until the players are reasonably experienced. Until then, 5 or 6 player (sometimes even 4 player) is really a chore, not just due to slower play speed but also mistakes which will be made, messing up game balance for everyone.


We all had 4-8 games under our belts. I don't know if that's considered experienced or not. Regardless, Eclipse does suffer from the standard strong-get-stronger problem that most multi-player wargames have. There reaches a point at which it's pretty much impossible to recover. In a six-player game, that might mean one hour into a three hour game.
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Benjamin Lindvall
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Just played a 6 player game last night of this as Orion, 5 hours long (my group loses focus once the PvP starts and starts APing). I was out of it in round 5 after losing the middle to Mechanema's Plasma Missiles (he attacked before I could get the mats to build Starbases). I held 3 sectors for the rest of the game, my economy was broken and I couldn't attack against Plasma Missile laden cruisers and starbases with computers. I had both Improved Hull and Phase Shield, didn't matter. Didn't have the materials to build a fleet large enough to absorb it all. So I sat behind my starbases and waited 3 hours for the game to end (we were playing quickly until round 5, then all hell and AP broke loose).

A Planta won that never got attacked, he also had Missiles, the way the board laid out only 1 player could attack him and he didn't have Improved Hull. He passed up his 1 chance to get it to buy Advanced Economy (3 copies up at the time) and since he had a Shard Hull (+3 hull part) on his cruisers he thought he could live without it. He was wrong.

Also, this Planta explored 5 times in round 1, fueled by a +8 money discovery tile. He had 4 discoveries as points, and 3 more as the aforementioned +8 money and 2 +5 science. All explores were finished by the end of round 2. The way the sectors laid out I had no way to reach him, the yellow Terrans were the only ones bordering him and he had little Science or Materials to challenge, just a pile of money.

I was going to buy the missiles myself in the round that both Mechenema and Planta bought them. I was last in the turn order because I was seated to the right of the poor money wise Hydran. The last tech didn't appear until round 9. Plasma Cannons weren't available until round 6 (not kidding, only 1 came out round 3, red Terrans bought them and never used them, was not involved in combats for most of the game... then 3 came out round 6), well after they were needed.

... in short I guess the point of this is that yes, you can be on the losing end of a long game here, with no way to recover after a big event in the early/middle. This has happened to at least 1 player in nearly all our 4+ player games.

And next time we'll play with a turn order variant... we've played enough times now to see the problem with 6 players and clockwise only.
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JumboCactaur wrote:
Just played a 6 player game last night of this as Orion, 5 hours long (my group loses focus once the PvP starts and starts APing). I was out of it in round 5 after losing the middle to Mechanema's Plasma Missiles (he attacked before I could get the mats to build Starbases). I held 3 sectors for the rest of the game, my economy was broken and I couldn't attack against Plasma Missile laden cruisers and starbases with computers. I had both Improved Hull and Phase Shield, didn't matter. Didn't have the materials to build a fleet large enough to absorb it all. So I sat behind my starbases and waited 3 hours for the game to end (we were playing quickly until round 5, then all hell and AP broke loose).

A Planta won that never got attacked, he also had Missiles, the way the board laid out only 1 player could attack him and he didn't have Improved Hull. He passed up his 1 chance to get it to buy Advanced Economy (3 copies up at the time) and since he had a Shard Hull (+3 hull part) on his cruisers he thought he could live without it. He was wrong.

Also, this Planta explored 5 times in round 1, fueled by a +8 money discovery tile. He had 4 discoveries as points, and 3 more as the aforementioned +8 money and 2 +5 science. All explores were finished by the end of round 2. The way the sectors laid out I had no way to reach him, the yellow Terrans were the only ones bordering him and he had little Science or Materials to challenge, just a pile of money.

I was going to buy the missiles myself in the round that both Mechenema and Planta bought them. I was last in the turn order because I was seated to the right of the poor money wise Hydran. The last tech didn't appear until round 9. Plasma Cannons weren't available until round 6 (not kidding, only 1 came out round 3, red Terrans bought them and never used them, was not involved in combats for most of the game... then 3 came out round 6), well after they were needed.

... in short I guess the point of this is that yes, you can be on the losing end of a long game here, with no way to recover after a big event in the early/middle. This has happened to at least 1 player in nearly all our 4+ player games.

And next time we'll play with a turn order variant... we've played enough times now to see the problem with 6 players and clockwise only.

If Planta has only 1 neighbor, who cannot attack Planta, it doesn't mean that nobody can attack Planta. Just plug in good drives to your ships, create an agreement with Planta's neighbor that you will move your ships through his area without stopping there and destroy the evil plants.
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Benjamin Lindvall
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Heh, I wish it was that simple. There were starbases in the way in this case, and if the player in the middle who was the only one in position to take a run at him did work that out (I actually did suggest that yellow get out of the way to let Mechenama through), Mechnema would have lost everything else while the other 3 players took the center and his home.

In our games, nearly every attack anyone makes is punished by another attack So maybe its just a group dynamic thing, but once the explores are done, that's how the game goes for us. A constant jockeying for position and stabs at taking sectors, where one move can trigger a whole bunch of other ones. In this particular game last night, the traitor card passed 4 times, 3 in 1 round! So alliances and agreements are not trusted as far as anyone can throw them devil
 
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JumboCactaur wrote:
Heh, I wish it was that simple. There were starbases in the way in this case, and if the player in the middle who was the only one in position to take a run at him did work that out (I actually did suggest that yellow get out of the way to let Mechenama through), Mechnema would have lost everything else while the other 3 players took the center and his home.

In our games, nearly every attack anyone makes is punished by another attack So maybe its just a group dynamic thing, but once the explores are done, that's how the game goes for us. A constant jockeying for position and stabs at taking sectors, where one move can trigger a whole bunch of other ones. In this particular game last night, the traitor card passed 4 times, 3 in 1 round! So alliances and agreements are not trusted as far as anyone can throw them devil

Sounds familiar. Just yesterday I got traitor card on turn 2 by invading and taking my neighbor's home system. I didn't have to keep the traitor card though as it was flying around the table several times after that. In the end I had two home systems, but neither of them was my own, as it was taken by someone.

If a turtling player is just allowed to win, at least 1 other player is not playing properly. It's a bit selfish to attack the guy who's doing his best to weaken the turtle, because that almost always means that the attacker must then defend instead and cannot hurt the turtle after all.

Nowdays, I try to be quite aggressive during the first half of the game against Planta and Hydran, because they very often end up winning a passive game.
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Yep. This was a quite passive game early (by our standards) as there was no Plasma cannons, and we couldn't afford the bigger weapons yet.

Next time, I will not be so forgiving to Planta. My choice was to connect to Hydran or Planta, chose Hydran, perhaps chose wrong. But I was last in the turn order in round 1, right after Planta, and he cut me out anyway, so it might not have mattered. But still.. should have maybe tried to find a way earlier.
 
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JumboCactaur wrote:
Just played a 6 player game last night of this as Orion, 5 hours long (my group loses focus once the PvP starts and starts APing). I was out of it in round 5 after losing the middle to Mechanema's Plasma Missiles (he attacked before I could get the mats to build Starbases). I held 3 sectors for the rest of the game, my economy was broken and I couldn't attack against Plasma Missile laden cruisers and starbases with computers. I had both Improved Hull and Phase Shield, didn't matter. Didn't have the materials to build a fleet large enough to absorb it all. So I sat behind my starbases and waited 3 hours for the game to end (we were playing quickly until round 5, then all hell and AP broke loose).

A Planta won that never got attacked, he also had Missiles, the way the board laid out only 1 player could attack him and he didn't have Improved Hull. He passed up his 1 chance to get it to buy Advanced Economy (3 copies up at the time) and since he had a Shard Hull (+3 hull part) on his cruisers he thought he could live without it. He was wrong.

Also, this Planta explored 5 times in round 1, fueled by a +8 money discovery tile. He had 4 discoveries as points, and 3 more as the aforementioned +8 money and 2 +5 science. All explores were finished by the end of round 2. The way the sectors laid out I had no way to reach him, the yellow Terrans were the only ones bordering him and he had little Science or Materials to challenge, just a pile of money.

I was going to buy the missiles myself in the round that both Mechenema and Planta bought them. I was last in the turn order because I was seated to the right of the poor money wise Hydran. The last tech didn't appear until round 9. Plasma Cannons weren't available until round 6 (not kidding, only 1 came out round 3, red Terrans bought them and never used them, was not involved in combats for most of the game... then 3 came out round 6), well after they were needed.

... in short I guess the point of this is that yes, you can be on the losing end of a long game here, with no way to recover after a big event in the early/middle. This has happened to at least 1 player in nearly all our 4+ player games.

And next time we'll play with a turn order variant... we've played enough times now to see the problem with 6 players and clockwise only.


If only one person can effectively attack the leader and the other players wont let him/her then they are costing themselves the game. Its poor strategy indeed to effectively defend the clear leader. Perhaps your group needs to think about strategy a little more and have a little less blood lust.

Also you can hope the other guys beat the snot out of each other (if you are down) don't be aggressive until there is a clear benefit to it and hope everyone ignores you stockpiling what little you have.
 
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